Education - public/private.

[IQS.RLOW]

It might not have been your point but that's the way it came across.

Current govt funding arrangements per head of child comes out at approx 80/20 in favour of public schools already yet private facilities educate 34% of students.

That's the very definition of inequitable

So what is your point? That the current funding arrangements are equitable? Are they too weighted towards private institutions and should be scaled back?

Please clarify

[Rorschach]

Current govt funding arrangements per head of child comes out at approx 80/20 in favour of public schools already yet private facilities educate 34% of students.

That's the very definition of inequitable

My point would be the one you keep ignoring.

That PRIVATE IS NOT PUBLIC. It has nothing to do with inequity.

If you choose PRIVATE that is your choice and not a public responsibility.
PRIVATE should not rely on PUBLIC funding.
Otherwise call them PUBLIC and be done with it.
A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE whether it be an educational facility or a department store is not a PUBLIC service.

BTW I have been very clear.
I'm not going to keep going around in circles on this.
Obviously we disagree. (Even when we agree apparently).
So it is pointless for me to even try to make a point.
I'm sure others will see what I've been saying.

Other than that I agree all children should receive some form of educational funding, but it is obvious that PUBLIC schools are the responsibility of PUBLIC funding to ensure they are up to scratch. Whereas PRIVATE schools are the responsibility of PRIVATE funding.

[Rorschach]

Libs retreat on Abbott's school call
August 22, 2012


Australia’s major political parties are split on which schools need more funding as new polling shows Labor improving.

THE Coalition has backed away from suggestions that private schools are hard done by, with opposition education spokesman Christopher Pyne denying the current level of funding for independent schools was an injustice.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott created a furore when he contradicted the findings of the Gonski review and said there was ''no question'' of injustice to public schools when it came to the level of government funding - ''if anything the injustice is the other way''.

The Coalition yesterday went into damage control, issuing a statement pledging ''across-the-board increases for schools'' and guaranteeing that no school would be worse off.

The Gonski review recommended the bulk of any funding increase flow to state schools, because they educate a disproportionate number of disadvantaged students.

''Of course not,'' Mr Pyne said, when asked if the current level of funding for independent schools was an injustice. ''The current level of funding for independent schools and government schools is appropriate.''

He said Mr Abbott had simply been referring to the ''myth'' created by the unions, the left and the Labor Party that ''somehow public schools are short-changed by governments when clearly they are not''.

The Gonski review recommended the bulk of any funding increase flow to state schools, because they educate a disproportionate number of disadvantaged students.

The Coalition has pledged to maintain the existing funding model and 6 per cent annual indexation, which equates to an extra $4.2 billion between 2014 and 2017.

The federal government is expected to commit an extra $3 billion a year over the same period.

Australian Education Union president Angelo Gavrielatos said for the Coalition's commitment that no school would be worse off to mean anything, the Coalition would have to be prepared to significantly increase recurrent funding for public schools.

''It is clear Tony Abbott is in damage control after yesterday railing against the injustice of what he believes is the overfunding of public schools,'' he said.

The Gonski report - the most comprehensive review of school funding in about 40 years - described the current funding model as ''unnecessarily complex'' and lacking in coherence and transparency. He is so right about the complexity of the current funding arrangements.

But Mr Pyne said the Gonski report was itself overly complex, and claimed it had been written to please the government. ''The current model is the simplest model that's been devised in spending by the Commonwealth by schools since the Second World War,'' he said. Oh dear...

Independent Schools Victoria chief executive Michelle Green said she supported the retention of the existing funding model for another four years to give schools certainty.

However, she said it did not cater adequately for students with a disability, indigenous students and those from non-English-speaking backgrounds, and she believed additional funding for these students should be built into the funding model over time.

Executive director of Catholic Education Stephen Elder said he welcomed the Coalition's commitment to increase funding to all schools. Both major parties need a reality check. You can't leave things as they are, because frankly, its a dog's breakfast. You can't keep promising funding increases or promising everything to everyone. Time to get real.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politi ... z24EovBGwB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Neferti]

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/sea ... F366868%22

State Governments still fund a large percentage (approximately 77%) of "public" (or as they were once known as) "State" schools. Public/State School Teachers are paid by the States/Territories. They are State/Territory Public Servants, NOT Commonwealth Public Servants. Private School Teachers are paid for by the School.

Private Schools are funded by the fees parents pay. The Federal Government contributes, per student, the same as they contribute, per student, for "State/Public" schools.

As others have rightly said. It is the parent's choice to send their children to a Grammar or Catholic "private" school and pay the fees, or they can send their children to a "state/public" school (which are not "free" anyway).

The Federal Government contributions come out of (basically) Income Tax, which most people pay. The State/Public schools contributions come out of the Ratepayers Taxes of that State/Territory.

You do realise that Income Tax goes to the Federal Government and your Rates go to your State/Territory Government?

Are you are trying to argue that parents who pay lots of money to have their children educated at a Private School should be disadvantaged because they decide to PAY to send their children to school? If there were no Private Schools, you would be paying more to send you kids to a Public School.

[Rorschach]

Are you are trying to argue that parents who pay lots of money to have their children educated at a Private School should be disadvantaged because they decide to PAY to send their children to school?

Is that addressed to me?
If so, if they choose a private school and consider that a disadvantage, that is still their choice.
Do I think Public Schools should be Publicly funded YES.
Do I think Private Schools should be Privately funded? YES.
Is there a flaw in my logic?

If there were no Private Schools, you would be paying more to send you kids to a Public School.

Not necessarily. More pupils will provide more funding, the need to not fund PRIVATE organisations from the PUBLIC purse means more money will be spent on PUBLIC institutions. Which IMO is how it should be.
Am I the only one who sees the difference between what is PUBLIC and what is PRIVATE?

[mantra]

Not necessarily. More pupils will provide more funding, the need to not fund PRIVATE organisations from the PUBLIC purse means more money will be spent on PUBLIC institutions. Which IMO is how it should be.
Am I the only one who sees the difference between what is PUBLIC and what is PRIVATE?

I agree. The majority of the taxes are collected from the plebs anyway. We've seen extra federal revenue go into a second rifle range or an olympic sized swimming pool and in many cases with the elite schools eg. Kings or Shore Grammar - their coffers are overflowing. We've seen the rorts over the years and the overpayments. Private schools are not held accountable for how they spend govt revenue. Public schools are.

Total government recurrent funding of government schools rose by 2.92 per cent in 2009-10 while funding for non-government schools rose by 7.14 per cent, according to work by Bernie Shepherd, a project officer with the NSW Secondary Principals Council.

The federal government supplied more than 80 per cent of the new funding for private schools, but state government funding to privates also rose by 5.32 per cent.

Non-government primary schools were the greatest beneficiaries of the extra funding. Federal funding for public primary schools actually fell by 0.28 per cent. A small increase in state government support meant that total government funding for public primary schools rose by 2.28 per cent.
Advertisement

But this was dwarfed by the rate of increase in government funding for private primary schools, which rose by 8.48 per cent - with federal support rising by 9.33 per cent and state government funding up 5.96 per cent.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political ... z24GWiVnf7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[IQS.RLOW]

Not necessarily. More pupils will provide more funding, the need to not fund PRIVATE organisations from the PUBLIC purse means more money will be spent on PUBLIC institutions. Which IMO is how it should be.
Am I the only one who sees the difference between what is PUBLIC and what is PRIVATE?

You are completely wrong. The publicly assisted private institutions have seen that they can spend the public dollar more efficiently than the public institutions can and get better returns from it.

You still haven't clarified if you are ok with funding per head of child no matter what institution...

[Rorschach]

No I'm not actually.
Also you shouldn't believe all the vested interest propaganda.
I worked for a triple A rated public company. They don't get that by being inefficient. Public is not synonymous with inefficient nor is private. That's why so many go bankrupt

You still haven't clarified if you are ok with funding per head of child no matter what institution...

I've quoted my personal position quite a few times actually. This from my very first post...
Personally I think the pie should be split. Firstly a pool set aside for Public Infrastructure and then the rest shared on a per pupil basis regardless of school type.
I don't see how it requires any clarification.

[Neferti]

I don't see how it requires any clarification.

This is a FORUM Rorschach. You are the Johnny come Lately.

Most of us have "discussed" this stuff for many, many years. We ALL KNOW what the response will be but we hope that some humour will be discovered.

We already know which persons we can NOT change. All we (really) do here is argue the point .... which is so, fucking POINTLESS. So, if you think you might be able to make a change (like you have tried elsewhere ) go ahead. Talk a blue streak. WWPA won't mind. There is a Forum Election looming .........

[Rorschach]

I'm sure most of that just went straight over my head Neferti.