Western/South Western Sydney Watch

[Black Orchid]

It would be hard to determine "reasonable force". If you were confronted by someone who had broken into your home and threatened you and your family, adrenaline would instantly kick in and "reasonable force" would go out the window and would be impossible to determine. You just act with the sole intent to stop them.

[rhino]

A home intruder has died after an altercation with a resident at a house in Sydney's south-west.

Around 7.30am the 44-year-old father of the home on Westwood Court in Harrington Park awoke to the sound of his dog barking.

Police say he went to investigate and challenged a male intruder in the loungeroom.

A physical struggle ensued and the intruder lost consciousness.

The resident's wife alerted neighbours and two members of the public commenced CPR on the unconscious man.

Paramedics soon arrived but were unable to revive him.

The male resident is at Narellan Police Station assisting police with their inquiries.

Detective Inspector Shane Woolbank said people are "entitled to their home" and can use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property.

It's begun?

The poor sod will be charged with murder and his life destroyed for eliminating the world of a worthless piece of shite.

He SHOUKD have dragged the body out the back and contacted the police saying there was a fight outside and he was too afraid to go and look.

Deny, deny, deny
He could cover any DNA by attempting CPR.

He should be given a medal

But our stupid legal system will destroy him.

Negative, judging by the Police officers comments on the matter it looks like he wont be charged. But we will wait and see, and if reasonable force is used there is no need to indulge in a cover up which could give him 10 years in jail. Just use reasonable force and all will be ok. You are entitled to defend your home and yourself. You need to stop encouraging people to commit serious crimes, that is a crime in itself.

The law is an ass
It will gauge the people and wait.

Once it all dies down, he will be charged and put in gaol.

Cowards cannot have real men standing up for themselves

It's against their nature

And as for advising people to commit crime
You are an ass, it was simply a suggestion for a better outcome.

Stop trolling me troll
We all know you are a coward
Just like pooftahs, you try to put down those you fear.

as usual, I am right

Dad-of-one, 44, is released without charge by police after intruder dies in his house during home invasion

[rhino]

It would be hard to determine "reasonable force". If you were confronted by someone who had broken into your home and threatened you and your family, adrenaline would instantly kick in and "reasonable force" would go out the window and would be impossible to determine. You just act with the sole intent to stop them.

Not really, its fairly simple. Thats reasonable because it is what a reasonable person would do. However if you chased after the fleeing perp with a knife and stabbed him as Valkie appears to advocate, that is not reasonable because you are not in danger from a fleeing person. The law provides that if you have a reasonable belief that you may be seriously assaulted or you are in fear of your life you can pretty much use whatever is at hand to defend yourself or others. There have been numerous cases where this has been upheld in the courts. The common belief that the law intends you to be a passive victim is not based in fact.

[rhino]

Stop trolling me troll
We all know you are a coward
Just like pooftahs, you try to put down those you fear.

You would be the last person i would fear. 3 seconds, max.

[Valkie]

Stop trolling me troll
We all know you are a coward
Just like pooftahs, you try to put down those you fear.

You would be the last person i would fear. 3 seconds, max.

I wouldn't give you that long.

Unless you curled up on the floor begging for mercy counted.

Back to OP

[Valkie]

It would be hard to determine "reasonable force". If you were confronted by someone who had broken into your home and threatened you and your family, adrenaline would instantly kick in and "reasonable force" would go out the window and would be impossible to determine. You just act with the sole intent to stop them.

Australian law does not have a self defence consideration.

The cops will sit on this, keeping quiet, not making any fuss.
When it all dies down enough, they will charge the man and he will have his life destroyed

A Newcastle man caught a pedo in his house where his young daughter lived.
He chased down the creep and dispatched him.
That case has been made to look like the man defending his child look like the criminal.

The law simply wants victims, not people who will defend themselves.

A man has been charged after allegedly shooting and critically wounding an intruder who broke into his home in Melbourne’s west.

Four people forced their way into a Hackett Court home and confronted three people inside on October 18, about 3.20am. One of the occupants was assaulted and in retaliation fought back.

“The occupant or the homeowner has then, we allege, fired a shot back at these people and as a result a male received a serious injury,” Detective Acting Sergeant Paul Jones said.

The alleged shooter, 37, has been charged and remanded in custody and will appear in Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on January 17.

A 34-year-old man from Sunshine West and a 31-year-old female from Kings Park have been charged with intentionally cause serious injury, home invasion, armed robbery and false imprisonment. The 34-year old man is due to appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on January 18.

One of the four intruders is still on the run. The man who suffered a gunshot wound is in a life-threatening condition in hospital while two of his alleged accomplices are in custody.Police have issued a warrant for the arrest of Matthew Thomas, 35, who is known to be around the Deer Park and Sunshine areas.”

There is no further information available about this case at this time.

Of course, the usual questions present themselves. Was it a legally owned firearm? Were the parties known to each other and/or involved in criminal activity? Did the home owner get control of the home invaders gun?

Further, why did Victoria Police sit on this case for over two weeks before being announced to the media? Given the recent attention to David Dunstan and the ongoing violent crime bonanza in Melbourne, I think it’s fair to say that there are political motives present here.

The facts of this case will come out in the wash. If this was indeed a LAFO who was home invaded and defending himself then we will fight for this guy. If the firearm was illegally owned and/or they are criminal parties known to each other, then he’s on his own.

That being said, the principle still applies – why are Australians legally enforced victims in their own home? Australia has become a country that has been indoctrinated to fear firearms but is outraged at the drop of a hat over people unable to protect themselves in their own homes against violent crime. Why some members of the public cannot reconcile these two points is really a thing to behold in the social engineering sense.

Seriously, your choices in this country right now when confronted with a home invasion are:

(a) get hurt or worse

(b) defend yourself and get charged and have your property confiscated

Choose one, plebs.

We will be continuing to follow this case with interest.


Details are emerging of a Newcastle homeowner who allegedly killed an intruder who was found near his child's bedroom.

Benjamin Batterham is set to face court this week charged with the murder of intruder Ricky Slater, more than 65,000 Australians have signed a petition calling for the homeowner's release.

For many signatories commenting on the petition, their support boils down to the question: 'what would I do if someone breaks into my house?'.

University of Adelaide law lecturer Kellie Toole said the question of defending one's home was not straightforward.

"It’s tricky, especially in Australia," Toole told HuffPost Australia.

"We idolise the concept of the house -- that a man’s home is his castle and the idea of defending your home is very important but some say our laws, certainly in South Australia, provide a bit too much flexibility."

Australia's legal rulings on intruder assault and death come down to the concept of self defence and the law doesn't always err on the side of the homeowner.

In 2012, NSW courts awarded a man $50,000 after he was caught breaking into a pub and bashed by the licencee.

Joshua Fox, who was 16 at the time of the crime, was caught breaking into Peakhurst Inn in Sydney, where licencee Honeheke Newton lived with his wife. He hit the teenager with a bat, fracturing his forehead.

NSW District Court determined the licencee used "excessive force" and as well as paying the victim, was also ordered to pay the victim's mother $18,500 for the trauma of seeing her injured son.



In 2011, Gold Coast man Kane Robert Cook was charged with manslaughter after shooting an armed intruder dead in his home. Police confirmed four men were waiting for Cook in his home, and after a scuffle, he shot one man in the leg with a World War II Luger 9mm pistol. The intruder died of his injuries and the ensuing case took two years to resolve.

When charges were eventually dropped, Cook's criminal lawyer Bill Potts told 4BC radio it was unjust.

"How could the justice system find a man defending who his own house and own life against armed masked robbers find himself charged with manslaughter of one of them?" Potts said.

"He's had a life sentence hanging over his head for the last two and a half years."

Then there's an elderly West Australian man who shot an intruder in 2009 but was not charged as it was determined he used appropriate force to protect himself and his bedridden wife.

Toole said each state and territory had subtle differences when it came to laws around self defence.

"Self defence in a home invasion is treated similarly in all jurisdictions -- there are some quirks but generally, the homeowner has to be acting in self defence because they fear for their safety or their family's safety and they need to have a reasonably proportionate response to the threat," Toole said.

"Except in South Australia, where one particular case where an elderly man shot an intruder prompted a change. Now a homeowner's response doesn’t have to be reasonable or proportionate."

The case was that of tow-truck driver Kingsley Foreman who shot a robber, armed with a replica pistol, after he stormed into Foreman's bedroom.

Jurors were told the robber was shot in the back, but that Foreman feared for his life, as well as his invalid wife. After a four-day trial, charges of murder and manslaughter were dropped and Toole said the case turned the spotlight on South Australia's laws of self defence.

"The case set a precedent that someone could be acting in self defence but the response is disproportionate to the threat," Toole said.

No matter where you live in Australia, Toole said self defence was dependent on fearing for your safety.

"You have to be acting in self defence -- and that means you need to fear for your life, or that your wife is going to be kidnapped or stabbed.

"You have to be acting for a defensive purpose, not because you're angry or you fear your property will get stolen."

[Valkie]

Let me explain why I hate these thugs.

My uncle was beaten nearly to death by a bunch of lowlife who knew he had a small win on the pokies.
He was 200 metres from home when 4 or more of these cowards beat him.
He and his family were never the same.
The cops were great.
" Who were they? If you don't know tgere isn't much we can do for ya."

My father was collecting medication for my invalid mother from a chemist in Sydney that had special deals for pensioners.
He caught a train to Wynyeard station where he was attacked, in broad daylight, by several attackers an robbed him.
The transit officers chased the attackers but could not catch them.
The police were again great.
"Well, you shouldn't go walking around by yourself in Sydney, we don't know who they are, so you'll probably never get your money back"
My dad was 74 at this time
He was black and blue for weeks.
I picked up his medication from then on, and always hoped these cowards woukd have a go at me, they never did.

The cops are useless
The law is useless
The system is stuffed
It punishes the defenders, not the criminals.
I will protect myself and my family, and walk or run away.
Not from fear, but because I know the system is stuffed.

[rhino]

It would be hard to determine "reasonable force". If you were confronted by someone who had broken into your home and threatened you and your family, adrenaline would instantly kick in and "reasonable force" would go out the window and would be impossible to determine. You just act with the sole intent to stop them.

Australian law does not have a self defence consideration.

Rubbish . I have just proven that it does.

The cops will sit on this, keeping quiet, not making any fuss.
When it all dies down enough, they will charge the man and he will have his life destroyed

More rubbish, he has just been released and told publically he wont be charged.

A Newcastle man caught a pedo in his house where his young daughter lived.
He chased down the creep and dispatched him.
That case has been made to look like the man defending his child look like the criminal.

he had no need to chase after the man and execute him, as I have shown that case was not reasonable force.

A man has been charged after allegedly shooting and critically wounding an intruder who broke into his home in Melbourne’s west.

Four people forced their way into a Hackett Court home and confronted three people inside on October 18, about 3.20am. One of the occupants was assaulted and in retaliation fought back.

“The occupant or the homeowner has then, we allege, fired a shot back at these people and as a result a male received a serious injury,” Detective Acting Sergeant Paul Jones said.

The alleged shooter, 37, has been charged and remanded in custody and will appear in Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on January 17.

A 34-year-old man from Sunshine West and a 31-year-old female from Kings Park have been charged with intentionally cause serious injury, home invasion, armed robbery and false imprisonment. The 34-year old man is due to appear at Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on January 18.

One of the four intruders is still on the run. The man who suffered a gunshot wound is in a life-threatening condition in hospital while two of his alleged accomplices are in custody.Police have issued a warrant for the arrest of Matthew Thomas, 35, who is known to be around the Deer Park and Sunshine areas.”

There is no further information available about this case at this time.

Of course, the usual questions present themselves. Was it a legally owned firearm? Were the parties known to each other and/or involved in criminal activity? Did the home owner get control of the home invaders gun?

Further, why did Victoria Police sit on this case for over two weeks before being announced to the media? Given the recent attention to David Dunstan and the ongoing violent crime bonanza in Melbourne, I think it’s fair to say that there are political motives present here.

The facts of this case will come out in the wash. If this was indeed a LAFO who was home invaded and defending himself then we will fight for this guy. If the firearm was illegally owned and/or they are criminal parties known to each other, then he’s on his own.

That being said, the principle still applies – why are Australians legally enforced victims in their own home? Australia has become a country that has been indoctrinated to fear firearms but is outraged at the drop of a hat over people unable to protect themselves in their own homes against violent crime. Why some members of the public cannot reconcile these two points is really a thing to behold in the social engineering sense.

Seriously, your choices in this country right now when confronted with a home invasion are:

(a) get hurt or worse

(b) defend yourself and get charged and have your property confiscated

Choose one, plebs.

We will be continuing to follow this case with interest.


Details are emerging of a Newcastle homeowner who allegedly killed an intruder who was found near his child's bedroom.

Benjamin Batterham is set to face court this week charged with the murder of intruder Ricky Slater, more than 65,000 Australians have signed a petition calling for the homeowner's release.

For many signatories commenting on the petition, their support boils down to the question: 'what would I do if someone breaks into my house?'.

University of Adelaide law lecturer Kellie Toole said the question of defending one's home was not straightforward.

"It’s tricky, especially in Australia," Toole told HuffPost Australia.

"We idolise the concept of the house -- that a man’s home is his castle and the idea of defending your home is very important but some say our laws, certainly in South Australia, provide a bit too much flexibility."

Australia's legal rulings on intruder assault and death come down to the concept of self defence and the law doesn't always err on the side of the homeowner.

In 2012, NSW courts awarded a man $50,000 after he was caught breaking into a pub and bashed by the licencee.

Joshua Fox, who was 16 at the time of the crime, was caught breaking into Peakhurst Inn in Sydney, where licencee Honeheke Newton lived with his wife. He hit the teenager with a bat, fracturing his forehead.

NSW District Court determined the licencee used "excessive force" and as well as paying the victim, was also ordered to pay the victim's mother $18,500 for the trauma of seeing her injured son.



In 2011, Gold Coast man Kane Robert Cook was charged with manslaughter after shooting an armed intruder dead in his home. Police confirmed four men were waiting for Cook in his home, and after a scuffle, he shot one man in the leg with a World War II Luger 9mm pistol. The intruder died of his injuries and the ensuing case took two years to resolve.

When charges were eventually dropped, Cook's criminal lawyer Bill Potts told 4BC radio it was unjust.

"How could the justice system find a man defending who his own house and own life against armed masked robbers find himself charged with manslaughter of one of them?" Potts said.

"He's had a life sentence hanging over his head for the last two and a half years."

Then there's an elderly West Australian man who shot an intruder in 2009 but was not charged as it was determined he used appropriate force to protect himself and his bedridden wife.

Toole said each state and territory had subtle differences when it came to laws around self defence.

"Self defence in a home invasion is treated similarly in all jurisdictions -- there are some quirks but generally, the homeowner has to be acting in self defence because they fear for their safety or their family's safety and they need to have a reasonably proportionate response to the threat," Toole said.

"Except in South Australia, where one particular case where an elderly man shot an intruder prompted a change. Now a homeowner's response doesn’t have to be reasonable or proportionate."

The case was that of tow-truck driver Kingsley Foreman who shot a robber, armed with a replica pistol, after he stormed into Foreman's bedroom.

Jurors were told the robber was shot in the back, but that Foreman feared for his life, as well as his invalid wife. After a four-day trial, charges of murder and manslaughter were dropped and Toole said the case turned the spotlight on South Australia's laws of self defence.

"The case set a precedent that someone could be acting in self defence but the response is disproportionate to the threat," Toole said.

No matter where you live in Australia, Toole said self defence was dependent on fearing for your safety.

"You have to be acting in self defence -- and that means you need to fear for your life, or that your wife is going to be kidnapped or stabbed.

"You have to be acting for a defensive purpose, not because you're angry or you fear your property will get stolen."

[/quote]
all your examples show that i am absolutely correct, you have no fear if you use reasonable force. Grow up and stop making stuff up.

[Valkie]

You bore me coward

You never answered the questions

Have you ever gone into a ring to match yourself against an equal opponent?

Have you ever taken on a thug

I can guess the answers

Cowards hate people who have the ability and readiness to defend themselves
They realise that they, as cowards, will never measure up
So they insult, denigrate and try to drag down the superior man.

You bore me troll coward.....victim
Go hide under your bed.
And wait for the police to come and rescue you

[Valkie]

Let me explain why I hate these thugs.

My uncle was beaten nearly to death by a bunch of lowlife who knew he had a small win on the pokies.
He was 200 metres from home when 4 or more of these cowards beat him.
He and his family were never the same.
The cops were great.
" Who were they? If you don't know tgere isn't much we can do for ya."

My father was collecting medication for my invalid mother from a chemist in Sydney that had special deals for pensioners.
He caught a train to Wynyeard station where he was attacked, in broad daylight, by several attackers an robbed him.
The transit officers chased the attackers but could not catch them.
The police were again great.
"Well, you shouldn't go walking around by yourself in Sydney, we don't know who they are, so you'll probably never get your money back"
My dad was 74 at this time
He was black and blue for weeks.
I picked up his medication from then on, and always hoped these cowards woukd have a go at me, they never did.

The cops are useless
The law is useless
The system is stuffed
It punishes the defenders, not the criminals.
I will protect myself and my family, and walk or run away.
Not from fear, but because I know the system is stuffed.

I will never be a victim

Except as a victim of the stupidity of the law.