El Paso mass murder

[brian ross]

Trump's proposed "red flag laws" are a start. The need for uniformity in gun checks and in such laws are a start. What is needed is for the US to recognise that only people who are properly trained, licensed and have a need for a semi-automatic long arm and restrictions on the types and sizes of magazines for all other firearms are acceptable. Oh, and of course, proper penalties for the misuse and mis-storage of firearms as well.

I wonder though, why or rather who forced Trump to speak out against White Supremacists? I note also he is as per usual only too willing to blame other things and other people for what has and is occurring within US society as far as guns are concerned...

[BigP]

Semi Autos in an assault configuration are just as deadly, American troops fired as many rounds in Vietnam as they did in WW2 and killed a lot less people,

And interesting claim. What are you basing it on, please?

As for killing more Germans than Vietnamese, well that could be for several reasons. The first is the different nature of the two wars. The Germans tended to bunch together and try and stop the US Army from taking over their country. The Vietnamese were much more diffuse - afterall they already owned the country the US Army was occupying, they wanted them to leave. When they bunched together such as during Tet'68, they tended to die just as readily as the Germans did...

I base it on facts and personal experience I have worked for an arms manufacturer for a long time , that little pocket pistol in my avatar was manufactured by the company many years ago, I have fired a a number of automatinc weapons, handguns too numerous to mention and still do , A long time friend of mine owns a company that produces a range of high quality single shot rifle actions that can chamber anything from 222 to 50 cal browning , He has sold them to various law enforcement agencies , I have hunted pigs on a couple of occasions with a norinco type 56 aks, full auto is rather wasteful, It might keep the oppositions head down, But it doesnt always kill many of them

[BigP]

""When they bunched together such as during Tet'68, they ""


Why dont you elucidate a little in regards to the Tet offensive, Most peeps here will not be aware of what it was,,

[brian ross]

Semi Autos in an assault configuration are just as deadly, American troops fired as many rounds in Vietnam as they did in WW2 and killed a lot less people,

And interesting claim. What are you basing it on, please?

As for killing more Germans than Vietnamese, well that could be for several reasons. The first is the different nature of the two wars. The Germans tended to bunch together and try and stop the US Army from taking over their country. The Vietnamese were much more diffuse - afterall they already owned the country the US Army was occupying, they wanted them to leave. When they bunched together such as during Tet'68, they tended to die just as readily as the Germans did...

I base it on facts and personal experience I have worked for an arms manufacturer for a long time , that little pocket pistol in my avatar was manufactured by the company many years ago, I have fired a a number of automatinc weapons, handguns too numerous to mention and still do , A long time friend of mine owns a company that produces a range of high quality single shot rifle actions that can chamber anything from 222 to 50 cal browning , He has sold them to various law enforcement agencies , I have hunted pigs on a couple of occasions with a norinco type 56 aks, full auto is rather wasteful, It might keep the oppositions head down, But it doesnt always kill many of them

So, no references then, I take it? I am not doubting your personal history, BigP, I am just interested where you found that piece of information...

[brian ross]

""When they bunched together such as during Tet'68, they ""

Why dont you elucidate a little in regards to the Tet offensive, Most peeps here will not be aware of what it was,,

Tet is the Vietnamese new year, rather like the Chinese new year. In 1968, the NLF (National Liberation Front - commonly called the Viet Cong) decided under orders from Hanoi that South Vietnam was ripe for a general uprising against the US and it's allies. They concocted a plan to promote amongst the general population the conditions for them to join into a spontaneous rebellion against the South's Government and the US and its allies. Part of the plan was for the NLF to come out of hiding and seize several sports stadiums and other important locations in Saigon. The sports stadiums were the only large, open areas in the city which would allow the US to bring it's troops in by helicopter.

Other places which were fought over included the US Embassy (which was in reality only a small isolated out building rather than the grand, imposing Embassy itself), the "Free World" HQ building and various ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) sites/depots.

The fighting however was not isolated to Saigon. It occurred across the country. Most notably in Hue, the old imperial capital of Vietnam, further up the coast from Saigon and closer to the DMZ which divided the two Vietnams. There, the PAVN (Peoples' Army of Vietnam - commonly known as the NVA [North Vietnamese Army]) seized the old imperial palace/redoubt and parts of the city. US Marines had to fight, house to house to retake Hue, Australia was also involved with Ba Ria, the provincial capital of Phuc Tuy province being seized by the NLF.

Where ever the NLF/PAVN stood and fought, the US and it's allies were delighted. After three years of fighting an elusive guerilla enemy, whom fled whenever the US forces arrived, here was an enemy who had come out of the shadows and who dug in, to fight it out, one-on-one with them. Basically the NLF was virtually destroyed and the PAVN forces in South Vietnam severely hurt.

In the West, however, the scenes of a small suicide sapper squad who had seized the outhouse in the US Embassy grounds dominated, along with scenes of mayhem and destruction. The US had won the battle but basically lost the war. While the NLF and PAVN had been severely hurt, so had the reputation of the US Commander, General Westmoreland who had proclaimed that his forces were winning the war in South Vietnam well before the Tet offensive had occurred. Western media had swallowed that line, hook and sinker and believed what he had proclaimed. They showed the reality and you had US media giants like Walter Cronkite going on TV with a blackboard and explaining why the US was never going to win.

1968 was the turning point of the Vietnam War. Before '68 the West was winning. After '68, the West had lost, not in Vietnam but in the hearts and minds of the American and Australian peoples.

[BigP]

Semi Autos in an assault configuration are just as deadly, American troops fired as many rounds in Vietnam as they did in WW2 and killed a lot less people,

And interesting claim. What are you basing it on, please?

As for killing more Germans than Vietnamese, well that could be for several reasons. The first is the different nature of the two wars. The Germans tended to bunch together and try and stop the US Army from taking over their country. The Vietnamese were much more diffuse - afterall they already owned the country the US Army was occupying, they wanted them to leave. When they bunched together such as during Tet'68, they tended to die just as readily as the Germans did...

I base it on facts and personal experience I have worked for an arms manufacturer for a long time , that little pocket pistol in my avatar was manufactured by the company many years ago, I have fired a a number of automatinc weapons, handguns too numerous to mention and still do , A long time friend of mine owns a company that produces a range of high quality single shot rifle actions that can chamber anything from 222 to 50 cal browning , He has sold them to various law enforcement agencies , I have hunted pigs on a couple of occasions with a norinco type 56 aks, full auto is rather wasteful, It might keep the oppositions head down, But it doesnt always kill many of them

So, no references then, I take it? I am not doubting your personal history, BigP, I am just interested where you found that piece of information...

im not a big fan of pulling down sites as reference . Nam lasted 18 odd years, every Gi was armed with an m16 or similar , you dont need to be genius to crunch the numbers

[Texan]

America should have had more guns.

If the victims were armed far fewer would have died.

And your evidence of that is, what, exactly, Sprint?

IMO, if there had been more guns then there would have been more people wounded if not outright killed. The Police would have a much harder time sorting out who was the original shooter and who was responding to him. You're also assuming that the people with guns are trained to use them and are able to shoot accurately. Most tests reveal the reverse.

Who goes shopping with gun on their shoulder? It was in suburban Texas, not downtown Kabul...

I mentioned a while back I have never seen a shooter killed by someone in the crowd...if it was a shoot out like the OK Coral at least you would know you were in the Wild West as it is these are people going about their every day lives...no one goes shopping expecting to be shot at and need to defend themselves.....


well they didnt used too....

can we now expect every Amerikan citz to now carry a firearm?..

A man was shooting up a restaurant in Oklahoma last year. 2 people, who did not know each other, confronted and killed the shooter. The 2 heroes were of different races, judging by their names, yet they worked together to take down a mass shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/us/oklah ... index.html

[sprintcyclist]

........ A man was shooting up a restaurant in Oklahoma last year. 2 people, who did not know each other, confronted and killed the shooter. The 2 heroes were of different races, judging by their names, yet they worked together to take down a mass shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/us/oklah ... index.html ................

............ The bystanders' actions were "well within their legal rights" and likely would be protected by good Samaritan laws, Mathews said. He deferred a final call to the Oklahoma County district attorney, whose staff did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment.
"These guys were protecting somebody else's life," the police captain said. "You can say they are heroes." .........

What great guys , heroes.

[The4thEstate]

The President is meant to lead the way though isnt he???

last I heard the Democrats where for more gun control... or has that gone the way of all other discussions on this topic?

how hard is it to ban all WAR WEAPONS ???

just get them off the market!

If by "war weapons" you mean the AR-15, which the Dayton shooter used in pistol form, it would be extremely hard to eliminate them from the entire United States even if you banned them.

Yes, you could make it illegal to sell them, but so what? There are already millions of AR-15s in private hands. Ban them from sale and what do you think will happen? The black market will flourish and the price will increase, but there won't be any appreciable drop in the number of them during our lifetime.

And don't even imagine you could order Americans to surrender their firearms. The typical response will be, quoting the famous line from the ancient Spartans, "Come and take them."

By the way, I'm not arguing that nothing can or should be done with regard to America's gun laws. On the contrary, I'm open to hearing and considering new proposals. But I also realize that simply passing more gun laws won't guarantee that the next wacko won't ignore them just as the previous ones ignored existing gun laws.

I also recognize that as typical lefties, the Democrats (who are increasingly acting like full-fledged Chavez/Maduro socialists) would dearly love it if nobody except the government and its elite rulers had the ability to arm and defend themselves. Control over the population is the goal of every hardcore socialist. Note, too, that since the United States is at the beginning of another presidential election season, the Dems and their lefty allies in the national media (which includes most news outlets) are more interested in using the mass shootings to their political advantage than protecting Americans from future such incidents.

As former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel once said (quoting someone else), "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

[The4thEstate]

America should have had more guns.

If the victims were armed far fewer would have died.

And your evidence of that is, what, exactly, Sprint?

IMO, if there had been more guns then there would have been more people wounded if not outright killed. The Police would have a much harder time sorting out who was the original shooter and who was responding to him. You're also assuming that the people with guns are trained to use them and are able to shoot accurately. Most tests reveal the reverse.

Who goes shopping with gun on their shoulder? It was in suburban Texas, not downtown Kabul...

I mentioned a while back I have never seen a shooter killed by someone in the crowd...if it was a shoot out like the OK Coral at least you would know you were in the Wild West as it is these are people going about their every day lives...no one goes shopping expecting to be shot at and need to defend themselves.....


well they didnt used too....

can we now expect every Amerikan citz to now carry a firearm?..

A man was shooting up a restaurant in Oklahoma last year. 2 people, who did not know each other, confronted and killed the shooter. The 2 heroes were of different races, judging by their names, yet they worked together to take down a mass shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/us/oklah ... index.html

Yep, and there are many, many more such examples -- they're just not widely reported because most of the national media would rather serve the aims of the leftists/socialists, who would prefer that nobody but the government have firearms (look how well it works in Venezuela and China).

Here's an example of how the infamous AR-15 protected a man from three masked, armed intruders who broke into his house and probably weren't there to throw him a surprise party: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ok ... rs-n739541

A 23-year-old Oklahoma man used a semi-automatic AR-15 rifle to shoot and kill three masked teenage intruders dressed in black who broke into his home Monday afternoon — an act authorities are investigating as self-defense.

Zach Peters, the homeowner's son, fatally shot an 18-year-old man and two boys ranging between 16 and 17 around 12:30 p.m. The trio allegedly forced their way into the residence through a back door and were killed after exchanging words with Peters, who fired multiple shots.

And here's a YouTube video that demonstrates why homeowners need to defend themselves. This teenage mom had just lost her husband to cancer when a couple of thugs decided to break into her home. Let's just say that one of them isn't going to be a repeat offender: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4B_XbW7ds