Is there a God

[billy the kid]

I didn't think this thread would receive much interest..I put it out there simply because it seemed topical, considering
the Folau issue.
Off topic, I think Folau is being used as a pawn by the religion he represents, and a scapegoat by the ARU/Qantas

However....I digress...
I would simply ask a series of questions and then leave the thread alone...
a) If there is a God...what has he done for you..given you faith I can hear someone saying...in what....
b) If there is a God, why has he permitted so much human tragedy/violence etc over the ages
c) If you wanted to enter the clergy, would you do so if there was no money in it....

I feel people need something to believe in because they have no self belief...along comes religion
and it becomes a crutch. People don't seem to understand that whatever talent, or lack of talent,
rewards or penalties etc etc they experience, its all on them....its their doing..not Gods...
Of course if one is involved in a serious road accident and becomes a paraplegic, that's down to luck...
bad luck...you were in the wrong place at the wrong time...its not Gods doing...
People like Aaron Baddeley and Phil Mickelson (golfers) both believe in God, with Baddeley thanking the
Lord when he wins a tournament..why doesn't God give him a decent golf game and he would win more often.
Mickelson gives a tenth of his winnings to the church...why...God didn't give him his talents.....
God didnt give Folau his talents...these people just happen to be better at their sport than others, and cashed in...

People may take me to task and quote from the Bible referring to various miracles...but did they
really happen...what about the discovery of the shroud of turin...who's shroud was it...did it come off Jesus...
Who really knows..conjecture will always exist...
Does it automatically follow that if the Bible is true...then there is a God...I suppose it does...
I discovered some time ago that the jehovahs witnesses proclaimed the second coming in 1914...they got that wrong...

One thing is for certain, mankind has certainly become an ungodly species...
In this regard, when I attended primary school and high school back in the day, scripture
lessons were given...I attended church and sunday school, scripture union and christian endeavour
classes for years...my late mother even wanted me to become a minister of religion at some stage
of my teen years...that had no chance...I left the church when I was about 14.
Nowadays religion has been replaced by the teaching and encouragement of homosexuality...how times have changed....

I have seen so many people brainwashed by their religion over the years that its not even funny....
Its sad...

Someone once said religion began when the first fool met the first con man....I wonder....

Anyway...believe what you want to believe...

[Neferti]

Excellent thought provoking post Reboot, much of which I agree with.

I will add that although I don't believe in 'life after death' as it is portrayed there could be something I can't explain. My Grandmother had a near death experience (NDE) when she died during surgery. When she told the doctors what was said during the time they were trying to revive her they freaked out and it was spot on. She could see and hear everything said and what was being done. No long white tunnel though lol.

I am just sorry that I don't know more about it because my Mother flatly refused to allow anyone to talk about it.

Way back in 1977, I had a burst appendix and "died" on the operating table. While they were trying to revive me, I had an out of body/near death experience. I was looking down at myself on the operating table with all the medicos busily doing "stuff" and hearing what they were saying. It was quite a calm feeling and, like your Grandmother, no long white tunnel.

Once I was back in the Ward I was told that they "almost lost me". Because I had peritonitis, and the appendix broke off and was gangrenous, they had to haul my intestines out and give me what is called a Lavage wash ... then chuck everything back, so nothing is where it originally was and I cannot have "keyhole" surgery. I had adhesions for 10+ years.

I have been asked whether this experience made me believe in God or the After Life and I have said, absolutely NOT. Death comes to everybody, eventually and although I do not believe "dying in your sleep" is painless, I do think that when you die there is a feeling of calmness as you look down on yourself.

[The Reboot]

For Black Orchid and Neferti:

There could be some links between near death experiences and a naturally occurring drug in our bodies (interestingly enough, also found in many plant species) called DMT. It occurs three times in our lives.. when we are born, whenever we dream and when we die. It has been synthesized and used as a recreational psychedelic. (Yes, I've dabbled. It was quite the experience).

Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is an intense naturally-occurring psychedelic that’s also found endogenously in the human body. It’s not as popular as LSD or psilocybin, though its use has grown over time.

The most popular route of administration is inhalation, but it’s also frequently taken orally in ayahuasca-like preparations.

It has at least been used for centuries.

Effects
Positive

CEVs and OEVs
Spiritual or otherwise meaningful experiences
Euphoria
Mood lift
Auditory hallucinations

Negative

Increased heart rate
Increased blood pressure
Fear
Anxiety
Paranoia

Full dose experiences

Taking DMT at a full dose (one capable of yielding a “breakthrough” experience) leads to highly variable effects. Although there’s a lot of variation, we can place the effects/experiences into groups and a general outline can be provided.

Among the common elements of an experience are:

Full replacement of normal reality with an “alternate universe.”
This may contain visual effects as well as seemingly sentient, intelligent, or powerful entities.
Complex rapidly changing “kaleidoscopic” imagery
Present with eyes open or closed.
Colors are frequently said to be brighter and more intense than when sober.
Some auditory changes, mainly in the form of distortions.
Whining, whizzing, and crinkling sounds.
Whispers are sometimes reported.
Auditory effects are less common and less prominent than the visual alterations.
Dissociation from the body and a disconnection from normal reality.
The experience is ineffable.
It’s difficult to put the effects into language and it may also be difficult to fully remember/process what occurred.

Transient anxiety is often a part of the experience, at least during the beginning portion. This can transform into euphoria, laughter, amazement, and confusion. Even though it’s not the most common response, it’s certainly possible to experience fear and anxiety during the entire effect period.

A user’s sense of time is distorted such that they may not comprehend time or it may feel like they’re in the DMT space longer than they actually are.

Levels of an experience

Benny Shanon’s stages of the DMT experience

The stage you reach depends on factors like dose and personal response.

Bursts, puffs and splashes of colour
Repetitive, multiplying non-figurative elements
Geometric designs and patterns
Designs with figures
Rapid figurai transformations
Kaleidoscopic images
Well-defined, stable, single figurative images
Proto-scenes
Full-fledged scenes
Interactive scenes
Scenes of flight
Celestial and heavenly scenes
Virtual reality
Supreme light

Rick Strassman’s categories

Strassman grouped the experiences by their potential core thematic element.

Personal – Encounters with one’s own personal issues, often difficult to accept.
Transpersonal – An experience novel in intensity and quality but formed from the subject’s previous experience. May be a mystical or near-death-type experience.
Invisible worlds – Encounter with autonomous, freestanding realities sometimes appearing to be inhabited by alien beings capable of interaction.

He reported over half of volunteers given a high-dose had at least one “invisible worlds” experience.

Progression timeline

When the effects first take hold they tend to be described as an energetic “rush” and vibration. People report it feels like they’re being rocketed to a new location.

Your head may feel like it’s intensely vibrating. Coinciding with this effect may be sounds, usually of a high-pitch, such as whining, crinkling, or crunching.

The initial period can contain transient anxiety.

From here, the user progresses towards a detachment and dissociation from their body and environment. This leads to a breakthrough which is sometimes preceded by a short waiting period.

Waiting period

While this isn’t present for everyone, there’s sometimes a short transition phase between the “rush” and the actual breakthrough. During this period you may see complex imagery and feel like your moving, such as heading down a tunnel.

It’s possible for someone to end at this phase, often with the feeling that they’ve just barely missed entrance to a complete experience.

Examples

Once someone is in the full effect period (the breakthrough), here is just a short list of the things that have been reported:

“Vivid colors”
“A merry-go-round with people in 1890s outfits”
“Clowns”
“Circus imagery”
“A sense of annihilation of personal identity”
“Feeling loves”
“Realer than real”
“Reptilian or insectoid alien beings”
“High-tech machine-like objects”
“Crocodiles raping and crushing the experiencer”
“A great, impersonal power behind all things”
“A ballroom with crystal chandeliers”
“A fantastic bird”
“The inside of a computer’s boards”
“DNA double helices”

Entities

The entities can appear in many ways. Here are some examples: dwarfs, elves, imps, spirits, gods, stick figures, clowns, reptiles, mantises, bees, spiders, and cacti.

Some users report there’s just a “presence” of an entity.

How they interact with the user varies. Sometimes they’ll laugh and welcome the user. Other times they’ll probe and examine the user. And in some cases there is no interaction.

Much of the time they’re benign or considered helpful, but they can occasionally be antagonistic.

It’s often reported the entities don’t feel like a part of the user. This may just be a feeling.

Users frequently describe them as wise, powerful, or loving.

Benny Shanon’s groupings

Mythological beings – Such as gnomes, elves, fairies, and monsters of all kinds.
Chimeras or hybrids – Typically half human half animal or transforming or shapeshifting beings, for example human to puma, to tiger, to wolf.
Extraterrestrials – These are particularly common for some experients and may be accompanied by spacecraft.
Angels and celestial beings – Usually winged humanlike beings that may be transparent or composed of light
Semi-divine beings – May appear like Jesus, Buddha, or typically Hindu, Egyptian, or pre-Columbian deities
Demons, monsters, and beings of death – Such as the angel of death

Low doses

A low dose can lead to mood elevation and anxiolysis, sometimes in the absence of any hallucinogenic activity. Depending on the exact dose, a non-breakthrough amount may also lead to objects vibrating, enhanced colors, and basic geometric designs.

In one study, a dose of 0.05 mg/kg (IV) led to mood elevation without hallucinogenic effects.
Ayahuasca

The term traditionally refers to B. caapi. It’s come to refer to a combination of B. caapi and P. viridis, the latter of which contains DMT.

Using DMT in this form greatly alters the effect. The timeline is extended to 3 – 4 hours and ineffability is usually less prominent. While the peak intensity (in the sense of fully replacing reality with something ineffable) is reduced, it can be as intense or more intense when it comes to the emotional and psychological impact.

Normally the full effects of ayahuasca are overlaid on normal reality, whereas inhaled/injected DMT is far more dissociative.
Medical

There isn’t much data on its potential medical utility and what does exist often involves ayahuasca, not DMT itself.

Some preliminary data suggestive of efficacy exists for anxiety, depression, and addiction. Much more data needs to be collected.

Depression

Animal research in rats found DMT could increase swimming (“antidepressant” effect) in conditions used to look for potential antidepressant effects.

An open-label trial for ayahuasca in patients suffering from depression found it could improve depressive symptoms up to 21 days after one dose.

A preliminary study involving three females found 2 ml/kg of ayahuasca led to a significant decline in HAM-D scores for up to 14 days, but not 28 days.

Anxiety

One study looking at the ritualistic use of ayahuasca for substance dependence noted a correlation with reduced anxiety scores.

Research has also pointed to chronic ayahuasca use being correlated with lower panic, but not state or trait anxiety.

Addiction

There is some evidence for efficacy in addiction, but most of the positive reports are anecdotal.

Informal data from an ayahuasca center in Peru claimed 67% of 175 patients exhibiting substance dependence avoided relapse for 2 years after undergoing the treatment protocol.

An observational study of ayahuasca treatment among First Nations people in British Columbia yielded some positive data. It only involved 12 ayahuasca-naive people who were given ayahuasca during two sessions guided by a traditional healer.

Data from a 6-month follow-up revealed a correlation with significant improvements in ratings of empowerment, mindfulness, hopefulness, life meaning, and outlook.

There were self-reported declines in cocaine, tobacco, and alcohol use.
Endogenous roles

So far there are only proposals about what it could be doing, assuming DMT has an identifiable endogenous role.

Most proposals fall into these groups:

Connection to altered states of consciousness, psychosis, and dreams
Connection to immunoregulation, anti-inflammatory action, and neuroprotection.
Connection to mood, anxiety, and stress regulation.

Tolerance

Tolerance largely doesn’t occur with DMT. It can be used multiple times in a given day.

One study found four closely-spaced DMT doses on the same day didn’t lead to subjective tolerance.

A paper in the 1970s found LSD-tolerant individuals given DMT didn’t display much cross-tolerance.

History
For centuries or longer

DMT has been used in the form of ayahuasca-like brews and in the form of snuffs. Snuffs typically contain DMT as a minor constituent, not as the primary drug. There is some evidence for snuff use dating back thousands of years.

Europeans reported ayahuasca (possibly just B. caapi) use during the 1700s. Prior to that point, we don’t really have evidence of ayahuasca being used. Based on the available evidence, it’s likely DMT-containing brews have been used for at least a couple centuries, but not necessarily millennia like is often claimed.

Amazonian tribes use ayahuasca (with or without DMT) to receive help from protective spirits, to receive insight into the causes/cures of disease, to see the future, to send messages to other groups, to prepare for war and hunting, and to discover enemies and their intentions.
1900s

Following the Amazon rubber boom, multiple syncretic ayahuasca-using religions appeared in Brazil. They blended Brazilian cosmological beliefs, Catholic and European traditions, and traditional beliefs/knowledge from South America.

Santo Daime appeared in the 1930s. It was formed by Raimundo Irineu Serra, a Brazilian rubber tapper. He encountered the brew through contact with indigenous peoples in Acre, a Brazilian frontier state.

Barquinha formed through a split with Santo Daime in 1945

Santo Daime became more active in urban areas and eventually internationally after the 1970s.

The Uniao de Vegetal (UDV) was formed in 1961 by Jose Gabriel da Costa, who was also a rubber tapper.
1931

DMT was synthesized by Richard Manske, a chemist working in Canada.
1950s – 1960s

Reports of endogenously detectable psychoactive tryptamines began to appear. Bufotenin was initially found, followed by reports of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT.

The INMT enzyme was then detected as well.

Dozens of studies ended up looking at the presence of DMT and other drugs in human biological samples.
1950s – 1960s

Research, initially with snuffs, found that South American peoples were sometimes using combinations of beta-carbolines and DMT. This led to the hypothesis that beta-carbolines activated DMT when used intranasally or orally.

Ultimately this hypothesis was supported by human experiments involving ayahuasca and ayahuasca-like preparations.
1955

DMT was first definitely isolated from a plant. It came from Anadenanthera peregrina, which was used to prepare a snuff.

At least a partial isolation may have occurred in 1946 by Brazilian chemist Oswaldo Goncalves de Lima, who isolated an alkaloid from Mimosa tenuiflora.

De Lima’s work was followed up in 1959 by American researchers who showed DMT’s presence in M. tenuiflora root bark. That source gave a 0.57% yield.
1956

Stephen Szara, a Hungarian biochemist, reported on the hallucinogenic effects of pure DMT for the first time. He synthesized the drug in his lab and injected it.

He then gave it to a couple medical colleagues, which progressed to 30 other individuals, mostly doctors.

One user reported, “the whole room is filled with spirits…I feel exactly as if I were flying.” Another stated, “In front of me are two quiet, sunlit Gods.”

Psychotic individuals were also given DMT in an experiment connected to Szara.
1960s

Although psychedelics rose into the West’s public consciousness at this time, ayahuasca was largely absent. DMT did receive some attention, but it wasn’t one of the most popular psychedelics.

Some discussion about the drug came from Timothy Leary and Ralph Metzner, who tried inhaling and injecting it.

A 1966 article from Leary brought DMT to the attention of quite a few people. It was called, “Programmed Communication During Experiences With DMT.” It included a report from the philosopher Alan Watts.
1967

Six snuffs from South America were examined and found to mainly contain 5-MeO-DMT, with DMT as a secondary drug.
1968

DMT was found in the leaves of Diplopterys cabrerana, an ayahuasca admixture plant in Ecuador.
1970s

Testing confirmed DMT was inactive orally, even when using as much as 1 gram. This was despite significant psychoactivity with IM, IV, and inhalation.

However, people began to find that combining it with an MAOI could lead to effects.

Jeremy Bigwood reported 100 mg of DMT with 86 mg of harmaline was effective. This combination led to:

DMT-like hallucinations…very similar to…a DMT and harmaline-containing ayahuasca brew that I had previously experimented with.

1980s

Further tests with DMT and MAOIs found the combination was reliably effective. A threshold of around 20 mg for DMT was determined, with the ideal amount being 30 – 40 mg or more.
1980s – 1990s

Terence McKenna helped popularize the drug and in particular the inhalation route of administration.

He frequently talked about his experiences and was enthusiastic about DMT.
1990s

Jonathan Ott, an ethnobotanist, reported that combining 120 mg of harmine with 30 mg or more of DMT yielded good effects.
1990s

Rick Strassman, a medical doctor, began investigating DMT. He picked the drug because it was short-acting, naturally occurring, had potentially inadequately explored roles in humans, and was relatively obscure.

He conducted his research at the University of New Mexico Hospital Clinical Research Center.

Dozens of volunteers received hundreds of doses.

His opinions as well as results from the research were presented in DMT: The Spirit Molecule, a book released in 2000. It helped to popularize the substance.
1996

Brazilian law was adjusted to allow for the use of ayahuasca. This followed a legal challenge from the UDV.
2005

The UDV in Brazil was reported to have an estimated 9,000 members, 1,200 of whom were adolescents.
2006

The US Supreme Court ruled the UDV could use their “hoasca” brew despite it containing a Schedule 1 drug. This ruling was based on provisions of the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act that allowed the Native American Church to use peyote.

Similar cases have appeared in other countries.
2000s – 2010s

Interest in the drug increased, partly due to individuals like Joe Rogan, Graham Hancock, and Rick Strassman discussing it. Strassman’s book led to a documentary, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in 2010.

This has led to more ayahuasca ceremonies in the West, more people travelling to South America to use ayahuasca, more people extracting the drug, and more people using it, generally via inhalation.
2017

LSD and psilocybin remain more popular than DMT, but it has become more common.

Ayahuasca has spread to many countries and has even received some mainstream attention.

DMT is sometimes synthesized, though it’s often extracted from plant sources, something that requires little chemistry knowledge.

https://thedrugclassroom.com/video/dime ... amine-dmt/

I didn't think this thread would receive much interest..I put it out there simply because it seemed topical, considering
the Folau issue.
Off topic, I think Folau is being used as a pawn by the religion he represents, and a scapegoat by the ARU/Qantas

However....I digress...
I would simply ask a series of questions and then leave the thread alone...
a) If there is a God...what has he done for you..given you faith I can hear someone saying...in what....
b) If there is a God, why has he permitted so much human tragedy/violence etc over the ages
c) If you wanted to enter the clergy, would you do so if there was no money in it....

I feel people need something to believe in because they have no self belief...along comes religion
and it becomes a crutch. People don't seem to understand that whatever talent, or lack of talent,
rewards or penalties etc etc they experience, its all on them....its their doing..not Gods...
Of course if one is involved in a serious road accident and becomes a paraplegic, that's down to luck...
bad luck...you were in the wrong place at the wrong time...its not Gods doing...
People like Aaron Baddeley and Phil Mickelson (golfers) both believe in God, with Baddeley thanking the
Lord when he wins a tournament..why doesn't God give him a decent golf game and he would win more often.
Mickelson gives a tenth of his winnings to the church...why...God didn't give him his talents.....
God didnt give Folau his talents...these people just happen to be better at their sport than others, and cashed in...

People may take me to task and quote from the Bible referring to various miracles...but did they
really happen...what about the discovery of the shroud of turin...who's shroud was it...did it come off Jesus...
Who really knows..conjecture will always exist...
Does it automatically follow that if the Bible is true...then there is a God...I suppose it does...
I discovered some time ago that the jehovahs witnesses proclaimed the second coming in 1914...they got that wrong...

One thing is for certain, mankind has certainly become an ungodly species...
In this regard, when I attended primary school and high school back in the day, scripture
lessons were given...I attended church and sunday school, scripture union and christian endeavour
classes for years...my late mother even wanted me to become a minister of religion at some stage
of my teen years...that had no chance...I left the church when I was about 14.
Nowadays religion has been replaced by the teaching and encouragement of homosexuality...how times have changed....

I have seen so many people brainwashed by their religion over the years that its not even funny....
Its sad...

Someone once said religion began when the first fool met the first con man....I wonder....

Anyway...believe what you want to believe...

Good stuff Billy

Addressing the bits I have highlighted.

The Israel Folau debacle is just another divisive publicity stunt. I'm not on either camp's side, though I am a firm believer in freedom of speech and that somebody else's words should not warrant a sacking. Yes, he signed a contract blah blah blah, but nobody should be fired for posting a meme on their personal social media. It's ridiculous. It isn't like he blew up a gay bar or something. He thinks people are going to hell for committing the "sins" detailed on that meme. So be it, his opinion means nothing to me.

On another note, religion has been able to dictate and judge people's behaviours for many years. It is only in the past decade or so that what I call the "leftard religion" has gained power and traction, and now the religious have their noses out of joint.

One is not better than the other. I don't think teaching little boys to stick objects up their arses is the correct response to religious indoctrination. Both are as bad as each other. I say this as a self confessed gay person. I am disgusted by the rainbow flag waving, mardi gras bullshit antics and I have stated as much elsewhere, that the behaviours and self entitled arrogance of people in these micro factions are only causing more hatred and "phobias".

Lastly, your statement on people needing crutches, something to reply upon. You are entirely correct, most people don't have the self-empowerment to believe that they themselves are capable of doing great things, and that it all boils down to their actions. There are very few 'wolves' among 'sheep' so to speak.

Crutches come in many forms. Religious belief, drug and alcohol addiction, other addiction (saw a snippet of Dr Phil one day, a girl was addicted to eating washing powder... I shit you not) irrational emotional attachment to people or friends (think stalkers, borderline personality disorder, etc). Most of the religious folk grow up believing in it so don't think to question a different viewpoint.

[Neferti]

The thing is .... DEAD IS DEAD ....

The fact that it COULD be a calming experience is something else. NOBODY has come back from the grave to tell us.

[Black Orchid]

For Black Orchid and Neferti:

There could be some links between near death experiences and a naturally occurring drug in our bodies (interestingly enough, also found in many plant species) called DMT. It occurs three times in our lives.. when we are born, whenever we dream and when we die. It has been synthesized and used as a recreational psychedelic. (Yes, I've dabbled. It was quite the experience).

Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is an intense naturally-occurring psychedelic that’s also found endogenously in the human body. It’s not as popular as LSD or psilocybin, though its use has grown over time.

The most popular route of administration is inhalation, but it’s also frequently taken orally in ayahuasca-like preparations.

It has at least been used for centuries.

Effects
Positive

CEVs and OEVs
Spiritual or otherwise meaningful experiences
Euphoria
Mood lift
Auditory hallucinations

Negative

Increased heart rate
Increased blood pressure
Fear
Anxiety
Paranoia

Full dose experiences

Taking DMT at a full dose (one capable of yielding a “breakthrough” experience) leads to highly variable effects. Although there’s a lot of variation, we can place the effects/experiences into groups and a general outline can be provided.

Among the common elements of an experience are:

Full replacement of normal reality with an “alternate universe.”
This may contain visual effects as well as seemingly sentient, intelligent, or powerful entities.
Complex rapidly changing “kaleidoscopic” imagery
Present with eyes open or closed.
Colors are frequently said to be brighter and more intense than when sober.
Some auditory changes, mainly in the form of distortions.
Whining, whizzing, and crinkling sounds.
Whispers are sometimes reported.
Auditory effects are less common and less prominent than the visual alterations.
Dissociation from the body and a disconnection from normal reality.
The experience is ineffable.
It’s difficult to put the effects into language and it may also be difficult to fully remember/process what occurred.

Transient anxiety is often a part of the experience, at least during the beginning portion. This can transform into euphoria, laughter, amazement, and confusion. Even though it’s not the most common response, it’s certainly possible to experience fear and anxiety during the entire effect period.

A user’s sense of time is distorted such that they may not comprehend time or it may feel like they’re in the DMT space longer than they actually are.

Levels of an experience

Benny Shanon’s stages of the DMT experience

The stage you reach depends on factors like dose and personal response.

Bursts, puffs and splashes of colour
Repetitive, multiplying non-figurative elements
Geometric designs and patterns
Designs with figures
Rapid figurai transformations
Kaleidoscopic images
Well-defined, stable, single figurative images
Proto-scenes
Full-fledged scenes
Interactive scenes
Scenes of flight
Celestial and heavenly scenes
Virtual reality
Supreme light

Rick Strassman’s categories

Strassman grouped the experiences by their potential core thematic element.

Personal – Encounters with one’s own personal issues, often difficult to accept.
Transpersonal – An experience novel in intensity and quality but formed from the subject’s previous experience. May be a mystical or near-death-type experience.
Invisible worlds – Encounter with autonomous, freestanding realities sometimes appearing to be inhabited by alien beings capable of interaction.

He reported over half of volunteers given a high-dose had at least one “invisible worlds” experience.

Progression timeline

When the effects first take hold they tend to be described as an energetic “rush” and vibration. People report it feels like they’re being rocketed to a new location.

Your head may feel like it’s intensely vibrating. Coinciding with this effect may be sounds, usually of a high-pitch, such as whining, crinkling, or crunching.

The initial period can contain transient anxiety.

From here, the user progresses towards a detachment and dissociation from their body and environment. This leads to a breakthrough which is sometimes preceded by a short waiting period.

Waiting period

While this isn’t present for everyone, there’s sometimes a short transition phase between the “rush” and the actual breakthrough. During this period you may see complex imagery and feel like your moving, such as heading down a tunnel.

It’s possible for someone to end at this phase, often with the feeling that they’ve just barely missed entrance to a complete experience.

Examples

Once someone is in the full effect period (the breakthrough), here is just a short list of the things that have been reported:

“Vivid colors”
“A merry-go-round with people in 1890s outfits”
“Clowns”
“Circus imagery”
“A sense of annihilation of personal identity”
“Feeling loves”
“Realer than real”
“Reptilian or insectoid alien beings”
“High-tech machine-like objects”
“Crocodiles raping and crushing the experiencer”
“A great, impersonal power behind all things”
“A ballroom with crystal chandeliers”
“A fantastic bird”
“The inside of a computer’s boards”
“DNA double helices”

Entities

The entities can appear in many ways. Here are some examples: dwarfs, elves, imps, spirits, gods, stick figures, clowns, reptiles, mantises, bees, spiders, and cacti.

Some users report there’s just a “presence” of an entity.

How they interact with the user varies. Sometimes they’ll laugh and welcome the user. Other times they’ll probe and examine the user. And in some cases there is no interaction.

Much of the time they’re benign or considered helpful, but they can occasionally be antagonistic.

It’s often reported the entities don’t feel like a part of the user. This may just be a feeling.

Users frequently describe them as wise, powerful, or loving.

Benny Shanon’s groupings

Mythological beings – Such as gnomes, elves, fairies, and monsters of all kinds.
Chimeras or hybrids – Typically half human half animal or transforming or shapeshifting beings, for example human to puma, to tiger, to wolf.
Extraterrestrials – These are particularly common for some experients and may be accompanied by spacecraft.
Angels and celestial beings – Usually winged humanlike beings that may be transparent or composed of light
Semi-divine beings – May appear like Jesus, Buddha, or typically Hindu, Egyptian, or pre-Columbian deities
Demons, monsters, and beings of death – Such as the angel of death

Low doses

A low dose can lead to mood elevation and anxiolysis, sometimes in the absence of any hallucinogenic activity. Depending on the exact dose, a non-breakthrough amount may also lead to objects vibrating, enhanced colors, and basic geometric designs.

In one study, a dose of 0.05 mg/kg (IV) led to mood elevation without hallucinogenic effects.
Ayahuasca

The term traditionally refers to B. caapi. It’s come to refer to a combination of B. caapi and P. viridis, the latter of which contains DMT.

Using DMT in this form greatly alters the effect. The timeline is extended to 3 – 4 hours and ineffability is usually less prominent. While the peak intensity (in the sense of fully replacing reality with something ineffable) is reduced, it can be as intense or more intense when it comes to the emotional and psychological impact.

Normally the full effects of ayahuasca are overlaid on normal reality, whereas inhaled/injected DMT is far more dissociative.
Medical

There isn’t much data on its potential medical utility and what does exist often involves ayahuasca, not DMT itself.

Some preliminary data suggestive of efficacy exists for anxiety, depression, and addiction. Much more data needs to be collected.

Depression

Animal research in rats found DMT could increase swimming (“antidepressant” effect) in conditions used to look for potential antidepressant effects.

An open-label trial for ayahuasca in patients suffering from depression found it could improve depressive symptoms up to 21 days after one dose.

A preliminary study involving three females found 2 ml/kg of ayahuasca led to a significant decline in HAM-D scores for up to 14 days, but not 28 days.

Anxiety

One study looking at the ritualistic use of ayahuasca for substance dependence noted a correlation with reduced anxiety scores.

Research has also pointed to chronic ayahuasca use being correlated with lower panic, but not state or trait anxiety.

Addiction

There is some evidence for efficacy in addiction, but most of the positive reports are anecdotal.

Informal data from an ayahuasca center in Peru claimed 67% of 175 patients exhibiting substance dependence avoided relapse for 2 years after undergoing the treatment protocol.

An observational study of ayahuasca treatment among First Nations people in British Columbia yielded some positive data. It only involved 12 ayahuasca-naive people who were given ayahuasca during two sessions guided by a traditional healer.

Data from a 6-month follow-up revealed a correlation with significant improvements in ratings of empowerment, mindfulness, hopefulness, life meaning, and outlook.

There were self-reported declines in cocaine, tobacco, and alcohol use.
Endogenous roles

So far there are only proposals about what it could be doing, assuming DMT has an identifiable endogenous role.

Most proposals fall into these groups:

Connection to altered states of consciousness, psychosis, and dreams
Connection to immunoregulation, anti-inflammatory action, and neuroprotection.
Connection to mood, anxiety, and stress regulation.

Tolerance

Tolerance largely doesn’t occur with DMT. It can be used multiple times in a given day.

One study found four closely-spaced DMT doses on the same day didn’t lead to subjective tolerance.

A paper in the 1970s found LSD-tolerant individuals given DMT didn’t display much cross-tolerance.

History
For centuries or longer

DMT has been used in the form of ayahuasca-like brews and in the form of snuffs. Snuffs typically contain DMT as a minor constituent, not as the primary drug. There is some evidence for snuff use dating back thousands of years.

Europeans reported ayahuasca (possibly just B. caapi) use during the 1700s. Prior to that point, we don’t really have evidence of ayahuasca being used. Based on the available evidence, it’s likely DMT-containing brews have been used for at least a couple centuries, but not necessarily millennia like is often claimed.

Amazonian tribes use ayahuasca (with or without DMT) to receive help from protective spirits, to receive insight into the causes/cures of disease, to see the future, to send messages to other groups, to prepare for war and hunting, and to discover enemies and their intentions.
1900s

Following the Amazon rubber boom, multiple syncretic ayahuasca-using religions appeared in Brazil. They blended Brazilian cosmological beliefs, Catholic and European traditions, and traditional beliefs/knowledge from South America.

Santo Daime appeared in the 1930s. It was formed by Raimundo Irineu Serra, a Brazilian rubber tapper. He encountered the brew through contact with indigenous peoples in Acre, a Brazilian frontier state.

Barquinha formed through a split with Santo Daime in 1945

Santo Daime became more active in urban areas and eventually internationally after the 1970s.

The Uniao de Vegetal (UDV) was formed in 1961 by Jose Gabriel da Costa, who was also a rubber tapper.
1931

DMT was synthesized by Richard Manske, a chemist working in Canada.
1950s – 1960s

Reports of endogenously detectable psychoactive tryptamines began to appear. Bufotenin was initially found, followed by reports of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT.

The INMT enzyme was then detected as well.

Dozens of studies ended up looking at the presence of DMT and other drugs in human biological samples.
1950s – 1960s

Research, initially with snuffs, found that South American peoples were sometimes using combinations of beta-carbolines and DMT. This led to the hypothesis that beta-carbolines activated DMT when used intranasally or orally.

Ultimately this hypothesis was supported by human experiments involving ayahuasca and ayahuasca-like preparations.
1955

DMT was first definitely isolated from a plant. It came from Anadenanthera peregrina, which was used to prepare a snuff.

At least a partial isolation may have occurred in 1946 by Brazilian chemist Oswaldo Goncalves de Lima, who isolated an alkaloid from Mimosa tenuiflora.

De Lima’s work was followed up in 1959 by American researchers who showed DMT’s presence in M. tenuiflora root bark. That source gave a 0.57% yield.
1956

Stephen Szara, a Hungarian biochemist, reported on the hallucinogenic effects of pure DMT for the first time. He synthesized the drug in his lab and injected it.

He then gave it to a couple medical colleagues, which progressed to 30 other individuals, mostly doctors.

One user reported, “the whole room is filled with spirits…I feel exactly as if I were flying.” Another stated, “In front of me are two quiet, sunlit Gods.”

Psychotic individuals were also given DMT in an experiment connected to Szara.
1960s

Although psychedelics rose into the West’s public consciousness at this time, ayahuasca was largely absent. DMT did receive some attention, but it wasn’t one of the most popular psychedelics.

Some discussion about the drug came from Timothy Leary and Ralph Metzner, who tried inhaling and injecting it.

A 1966 article from Leary brought DMT to the attention of quite a few people. It was called, “Programmed Communication During Experiences With DMT.” It included a report from the philosopher Alan Watts.
1967

Six snuffs from South America were examined and found to mainly contain 5-MeO-DMT, with DMT as a secondary drug.
1968

DMT was found in the leaves of Diplopterys cabrerana, an ayahuasca admixture plant in Ecuador.
1970s

Testing confirmed DMT was inactive orally, even when using as much as 1 gram. This was despite significant psychoactivity with IM, IV, and inhalation.

However, people began to find that combining it with an MAOI could lead to effects.

Jeremy Bigwood reported 100 mg of DMT with 86 mg of harmaline was effective. This combination led to:

DMT-like hallucinations…very similar to…a DMT and harmaline-containing ayahuasca brew that I had previously experimented with.

1980s

Further tests with DMT and MAOIs found the combination was reliably effective. A threshold of around 20 mg for DMT was determined, with the ideal amount being 30 – 40 mg or more.
1980s – 1990s

Terence McKenna helped popularize the drug and in particular the inhalation route of administration.

He frequently talked about his experiences and was enthusiastic about DMT.
1990s

Jonathan Ott, an ethnobotanist, reported that combining 120 mg of harmine with 30 mg or more of DMT yielded good effects.
1990s

Rick Strassman, a medical doctor, began investigating DMT. He picked the drug because it was short-acting, naturally occurring, had potentially inadequately explored roles in humans, and was relatively obscure.

He conducted his research at the University of New Mexico Hospital Clinical Research Center.

Dozens of volunteers received hundreds of doses.

His opinions as well as results from the research were presented in DMT: The Spirit Molecule, a book released in 2000. It helped to popularize the substance.
1996

Brazilian law was adjusted to allow for the use of ayahuasca. This followed a legal challenge from the UDV.
2005

The UDV in Brazil was reported to have an estimated 9,000 members, 1,200 of whom were adolescents.
2006

The US Supreme Court ruled the UDV could use their “hoasca” brew despite it containing a Schedule 1 drug. This ruling was based on provisions of the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act that allowed the Native American Church to use peyote.

Similar cases have appeared in other countries.
2000s – 2010s

Interest in the drug increased, partly due to individuals like Joe Rogan, Graham Hancock, and Rick Strassman discussing it. Strassman’s book led to a documentary, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, in 2010.

This has led to more ayahuasca ceremonies in the West, more people travelling to South America to use ayahuasca, more people extracting the drug, and more people using it, generally via inhalation.
2017

LSD and psilocybin remain more popular than DMT, but it has become more common.

Ayahuasca has spread to many countries and has even received some mainstream attention.

DMT is sometimes synthesized, though it’s often extracted from plant sources, something that requires little chemistry knowledge.

https://thedrugclassroom.com/video/dime ... amine-dmt/

That is SO long and I will read it ALL a bit later and I do think it is likely that certain chemicals would be released into our system in death but does it address how you can remember conversations whilst technically dead?

[The Reboot]

It doesn't. That one remains a mystery.

[Neferti]

Reading what people say and experiencing it are two different things.

[Super Nova]

NO

[FLEKTARN]

A God is in my pants, hard as coffin nail, mate

[FLEKTARN]

Prove it...

I think so, yes. Everything is so complex, that couldn’t have evolved on its own. But our so called “God” or maybe “Gods” have abandoned us. That is for sure. There’s just too much sick in the world that not only isn’t being stopped, but actually tolerated.

The whole evolving theory is just plain retarded. Why don’t rocks, grass, planets, monkeys evolve now?

And a piece of advice: Those long posts, nobody is reading that. Make it short. I don’t have a whole day to read through all that shit.