europe starting to build solar thermal power stations

[Jovial Monk]

Yesterday, 12 European companies signed a 400 billion euro (560 billion dollar) initiative to built huge solar thermal power plants in Africa and the Middle East. Munich Re, Deutsche Bank and Siemens are among the corporate giants that will form the consortium Desertec. By 2050, the solar farms may provide up to 15 percent of Europe’s electricity needs and a substantial portion of the power needs of the producer countries with carbon-free power.

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/07/15/af ... #more-8994

Why didn't WE do this, we get more sun than bloody Africa! Ok that was stupid, lying back-to-the-fifties Howard who saved money to buy elections. Rudd has been in power 2 years now, nearly, so how about some fucking action Mr Rudd? Mr Garret? Ms Wong?

Why is this country so fucking backwards? We are quick to accept consumer goodies like cell phones & color TV but we never DO anything. All those fucking inventions, now realised in China or the US, no bastard here wanted to capitalise any of those inventors. Global warming a major problem and we close our only PV factory! The "lucky country" with timid morons everywhere.

[mellie]

BEIJING — A U.S. solar power company said Saturday it will help build a series of solar thermal power plants in China, as the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases tries to decrease its heavy reliance on coal, imported gas and oil.

California-based eSolar Inc. will provide Shandong Penglai Electric Power Equipment Manufacturing Co. with the technology and information to build the concentrated solar thermal power farms with a capacity totaling 2,000 megawatts.

The $5 billion investment would be the largest such project in China, though the companies didn't say who would be investing how much.

"This is a huge jump for China," said Deborah Seligsohn, director of the China climate program for the U.S.-based World Resources Institute. "That amount suggests a number of commercial plants."

Interest in China as a solar energy market is growing quickly as the government looks for alternatives to coal. Saturday's deal comes four months after the largest solar panel maker in the U.S., First Solar, struck a tentative deal to build a massive solar field in China.

The eSolar deal is for concentrated solar thermal power — not the traditional image of vast farms of solar panels, but a system of taking what essentially are mirrors and focusing them to heat water to create steam to power a generator.

"There's room in the world for both systems, and we need both," Seligsohn said.






China is moving much faster than the U.S. in solar power development, eSolar officials said.

"This is an excellent example of what we all must do to fight climate change," Merrick Kerr, eSolar's chief financial officer, told a news conference Saturday in Beijing.

The first solar plant under the deal will be in Yulin city in the central province of Shaanxi.

China has set ambitious goals for solar and other renewable energy in an effort to clean up its environment and curb surging demand for imported oil and gas, which communist leaders see as a strategic weakness.



Late last year, legislators approved changes to China's 2006 renewable energy law saying utilities will be required to buy all the power produced by wind farms and other renewable sources in an effort to reduce heavy reliance on coal.

Government goals issued in 2005 call for at least 15 percent of China's power to come from wind, solar and hydropower by 2020, up from 9 percent now. Officials say that target may be raised to 20 percent because the industry is developing so quickly.

Coal, however, provides two-thirds of China's power and is expected to remain the dominant energy source in coming years.

China is the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases and is not bound by global agreements on curbing emissions because it is a developing economy. But the State Council, or China's Cabinet, has promised to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide for each unit of economic output by 40 percent to 45 percent from 2005 levels by 2020.

Not before China...

Twit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34793107/ns ... vironment/

[IQS.RLOW]

....oh look. No carbon tax needed

[Outlaw Yogi]

Why didn't WE do this, ...

Why is this country so fucking backwards?

'Coz halfwitted fluffy bunnies like you sit on your arse poo pooing it, whille babbling about the virtues of nukes, and never do anything constructive for thing you supposedly believe in.

[mellie]

....oh look. No carbon tax needed

But they'll continue taxing us under false pretences without articulating where our taxes are going, including the 10% carbon- tax revenue squarely intended for the UN anyway.

Just turn a blind eye guys... daylight robbery at it's best...if you'll excuse the pun.

[Outlaw Yogi]

....oh look. No carbon tax needed

I reckon if all the subsidies for all the competing players in the energy sector were abolished, and said players let loose to compete in a price/value driven market, that would be the case. Dinosaur technologies would just die out within a decade or few.

[IQS.RLOW]

I disagree. Coal will be cheapest form of energy we have for a long long time

[mellie]

A complementary source of energy only, sorry folks...
In the summer, Finland usually receives more radiation energy from the sun than Central Europe, but in the winter the case is the opposite.In the south of Finland, the annual amount of the radiation is almost as high as in Central Europe. A solar heating system can 'ONLY' cover 10-30 per cent of the heating energy requirement of a single-family, the initial out-lay aside, how many Australians can afford to install $80,000 solar panels on their rooftops, what on average does an Australian spend on power in their lifetime?

It's complimentary, nothing more, thus cant be depended on as a primary source of power.

Solar thermal energy (STE)[ is a technology for harnessing solar energy for thermal energy (heat). Solar thermal collectors are classified by the USA Energy Information Administration as low-, medium-, or high-temperature collectors. Low temperature collectors are flat plates generally used to heat swimming pools. Medium-temperature collectors are also usually flat plates but are used for heating water or air for residential and commercial use. High temperature collectors concentrate sunlight using mirrors or lenses and are generally used for electric power production. STE is different from photovoltaics, which convert solar energy directly into electricity. While only 600 megawatts of solar thermal power is up and running worldwide in October 2009 according to Dr David Mills of Ausra, another 400 megawatts is under construction and there are 14,000 megawatts of the more serious concentrating solar thermal (CST) projects being developed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy

Also, wouldn't it be ironic if solar panels contributed to reversible atmospheric warming, and caused the earth to retain heat?

What is the life expectancy of solar panels...about 20 years apparently.

Put your hand up if you would use $80,000 worth of power in 20 years.

Lets see... the average power bill for an Australian family of 4 is what p/a?

8 Jan 2010 ... That's $989 per year allegedly.

Well....

In the past 12 months we have made changes to the house and our energy use and have gone from an annual electricity bill of approx $2400 per year to what I expect will now be near $1500 per year. We have always had the hot water booster(now solar), pool, AC and bore pump all on Tariff33 which makes a difference. Now our total energy use for the year over both Tariff11 and Tariff33 is 9000kWh. This equates to going from an average of approx 43kWh/day down to 24.5kWh per day.

- Individual who made the green switch


So... is this not roughly about $20,000 (coal power over 20 years based on a family of 4) -vrs- $80,000 every 20 years, for an average size family converting to solar, and even then, it's only supplementary this and you will be paying for a family of 4 for a semi-reliable complimentary source of power?

Long after the kids have left home and are paying their own power bills, we'll still be paying $80,000 for a complete solar conversion every 20 years.

Compared to much less when compared to coal driven energy.

Do the maths ...

Lest we forget the silicon waste...

So it;s not only our celebrities silicon tits we have to worry about.....

[mellie]

When will solar be a viable and affordable alternative, when it costs less than coal to implement.

So given ...

Coal x a family over a 20 year period = $20,000 (at present)

-vrs-

Solar x a family/single/retired couple/whatever over a 20 year period = $80,000 (at present) + 15% on top of this again for a supplementary power source (coal)

Means it's just not viable at this stage, nor will be any time in the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile, China are world leaders in "Green Technology" this and will super-power themselves by turning the tables at our expense if we go down this path should we too aspire to super-size their economy.

PS: PVC solar panels prices have sky-rocketed since 2004, this and as supply/demand increases will soar even further.

Honestly, who can afford to be green in this current eco-political environment, even if we wanted to be?

Bob Brown has hold of himself....solar panels (full scale) enough to generate as much as 85%+ of your household electricity requirements will be for the wealthy elite, corporations, those who can afford to write their panels off on tax every 20 years and claim much of it back on tax.

Can you afford to pay 4X as much for your power bills converting to solar energy?

This and continue doing so upon retirement on a singles pension?

Say goodbye to western supremacy and say hello to communist Asia-topia, because our current deluded government wouldn't have it any other way, being the greedy, self-serving short-term opportunists they are.

Labor are in it for a good time, not a long time.

And it wont be Gillards spawn/ kids or even grand-kids copping the slack at school tomorrow for her shoddy dark deals being made today, given she is barren.

Hitler was childless also... it makes being a ruthless self-serving dictator so much more palatable when you know you are all that matters now and into the future.

If children really are the future, then what the fuck is Gillard doing?

[Outlaw Yogi]

I disagree. Coal will be cheapest form of energy we have for a long long time

Then why do they need $9 billion or more in annual fuel subsidies?

Coal industry reckons it brings $18 billion into the country annually (exports), so it costs us $9 billion to make $9 billion.

Nothing is cheaper to install, maintain, and replace than PV solar, period.
Solar PV isn't restricted to grids either, sometimes its the only option (over diesel generators) for decentralised/local/isolated power systems.

Actually, unless the coal industry modifies its equipment to electric (powered by a coal plant it feeds), the cost of coal will rise with the price of diesel, making it less viable again.