Indonesia spy crap..

[Phil E. Buster]

Abbott will stop the boats with or without corrupt Indonesian officials cooperation.

ONLY MR ABBOTT CAN STOP THE BOATS AND TURN THEM BACK!

Ditch the witch!

[mantra]

Numbers count greatly in a better military where all buy the same weapons. We do have technological military advantage in that our boomerangs will come back, we are friends with bankrupt America. While Indonesia has no Muslim friends at all!

We are fortunate that this blowout in our relations with Indonesia didn't come after giving them the promised 4 military aircraft. This on top of the 2 military patrol boats Abbott has given to Sri Lanka, a nation accused of war crimes, is asking for trouble.

Bribing other nations with war vehicles to stop asylum seekers will end up costing us billions. It would be more economical just to let them come here.

Officials from both countries were due to gather at the RAAF base at Richmond on Tuesday to hand over of four Hercules C-130H.

But Defence Minister David Johnston's advisers said the handover would be delayed as the department had not received any official correspondence from Jakarta over whether they would accept the gift.

"The advice we have is that it is likely to be postponed,'' a spokesman said.

The cargo planes have already been painted with Indonesian insignia and RAAF pilots have been training up their Indonesian counterparts for several months.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 6766472227

[Neferti]

Y*A*W*N*

Indonesia is taking advantage of some publicity due to their impending ELECTION.


Tony can always ask the US to invade the place .......... the US is running out of Wars, isn't it? Or, since Obama is running out of steam he might call a war anyhow. Get rid of millions of Muslims in one foul swoop. I'd prefer the Middle East but ... beggars can't be choosers.

[mantra]

Tony can always ask the US to invade the place .......... the US is running out of Wars, isn't it? Or, since Obama is running out of steam he might call a war anyhow. Get rid of millions of Muslims in one foul swoop. I'd prefer the Middle East but ... beggars can't be choosers.

Good solution. The US can invade Indonesia on our behalf and then China can come to their rescue. They don't like the Americans anyway. China has been supplying arms to Indonesia.

We can kill two birds with one stone then - get rid of the Muslims and the Americans, unless the Chinese decide they might as well colonise us while they're killing off the yanks next door. We won't be far off being colonised by the Chinese anyway when we sign an FTA with them.

It is against this backdrop that Indonesia will be opening talks with China about strengthening defense cooperation. The proposal is not new, of course, and its implications are not far-reaching from a military standpoint: Jakarta wants to start building Chinese anti-ship missiles locally to inject some momentum into its nascent military modernization program.

But Indonesia has picked a sensitive time to start working on joint defense projects with China. If ASEAN is going to overcome its current divisions, it needs its most important member to be the rock of stability and impartiality at its center. An Indonesia that’s too close to China will cease to be the rallying point for the association’s other nine members.

http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/indonesi ... ith-china/

[Neferti]

Tony can always ask the US to invade the place .......... the US is running out of Wars, isn't it? Or, since Obama is running out of steam he might call a war anyhow. Get rid of millions of Muslims in one foul swoop. I'd prefer the Middle East but ... beggars can't be choosers.

Good solution. The US can invade Indonesia on our behalf and then China can come to their rescue. They don't like the Americans anyway. China has been supplying arms to Indonesia.

We can kill two birds with one stone then - get rid of the Muslims and the Americans, unless the Chinese decide they might as well colonise us while they're killing off the yanks next door. We won't be far off being colonised by the Chinese anyway when we sign an FTA with them.

Ha ha ha. Blow the World up. Right? I was being flippant.

Actually, it is one way to cull the unemployed and native species all in one foul swoop. Sudan kids are here in Oz. Plus they are causing more problems here in Canberra than other migrants, ATM. Asians have always been here. They study hard.

[DaS Energy]

Neferti~ wrote: "Tony can always ask the US to invade the place"

In its entire history the US has never invaded country that can fight back!

[Rorschach]

Tony can always ask the US to invade the place .......... the US is running out of Wars, isn't it? Or, since Obama is running out of steam he might call a war anyhow. Get rid of millions of Muslims in one foul swoop. I'd prefer the Middle East but ... beggars can't be choosers.

Good solution. The US can invade Indonesia on our behalf and then China can come to their rescue. They don't like the Americans anyway. China has been supplying arms to Indonesia.

We can kill two birds with one stone then - get rid of the Muslims and the Americans, unless the Chinese decide they might as well colonise us while they're killing off the yanks next door. We won't be far off being colonised by the Chinese anyway when we sign an FTA with them.

Ha ha ha. Blow the World up. Right? I was being flippant.

Actually, it is one way to cull the unemployed and native species all in one foul swoop. Sudan kids are here in Oz. Plus they are causing more problems here in Canberra than other migrants, ATM. Asians have always been here. They study hard.

What makes you think China likes Indonesia... you being racist mantra?
They are mostly Muslims... China doesn't even like their Muslims.

[Chard]

Rorschach "Unfortunately for them we have a better military than they do... we also have a technological military advantage not to mention bigger friends"

Numbers count greatly in a better military where all buy the same weapons. We do have technological military advantage in that our boomerangs will come back, we are friends with bankrupt America.

Indonesia is an archipelago and they spend less than 1/3rd on their military than Australia does.

The RAAF operates 95 F/A-18, with 24 being the "Super Hornet" F model, six Wedgetail AWACS aircraft, and five KC-30As for aerial refueling. The IAF has less than 60 combat aircraft in total, most of which are either much older aircraft that the RAAF's or what newer aircraft the IAF has are in such low numbers they simply cannot afford to lose them in combat. the IAF also has no aerial refuel ability or AWACS support.

The RAN has 12 frigates to the IN's 6 and 6 Collins-class subs to the INs two german-built Carkra subs.

Now, between Indonesia and Australia is several hundred kilometers of open ocean. Given the force dispairity between just the RAAF/RAN vs IAF/IN exactly how is Indonesia a threat to Australia? They can't get to you from the air because they don't have anything with the range to make the trip and return You out number them 2 to 1 for surface combatants and 3 to 1 for submarines, so they can't come at you from the sea.

This is before we get into just how trivial it would be for the USN to shut down the entire conflict simply by steaming two carriers into the area and bringing a larger navy and airforce than the combined forces of the RAAF/RAN/IAF/IN combined, and daring any of you to start some shit. We've done it before. No one in their right mind wants a fght with the US Navy, we're just that damn powerful.

While Indonesia has no Muslim friends at all!

They don't have any theat are willing to either upset the US enough that we'd stop supporting their countries governments, stop/curtail oil purchases from their countries, or just destroy their civilizations like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Indonesia doesn't have any friends like that goddamn stupid.

[IQS.RLOW]

Labor owns this fuckup

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... 6767293814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JULIA Gillard and Bill Shorten last week gave the Prime Minister advice they should hope like hell he won't take.

Because if Tony Abbott really were the wrecker and thug they claim, then he would indeed say sorry to Indonesia - sorry Labor had been so catastrophically stupid.

He really would promise Indonesia that Australia would never again spy on the phones of its President, his wife and his ministers as the Rudd government authorised our spies to do in 2009.

He would say only people as reckless and paranoid as then prime minister Kevin Rudd and his deputy, Gillard, would bug a president as friendly to us as Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
Sorry, he'd tell Yudhoyono. Sorry we once had those crazier in charge. I'm here to fix it.

So why doesn't Abbott do something so clearly to his advantage?

Why doesn't he listen to Gillard, a former prime minister who now sides with Indonesia against the Government of her own country?

Last week Gillard heckled from the sidelines, telling Abbott how to fix the damage done since the ABC published intelligence secrets stolen by US traitor Edward Snowden revealing our spying on Indonesia's leaders.

With protesters now besieging our Jakarta embassy, Islamists urging the bombing of Australians and Indonesia calling off co-operation against people smugglers, Gillard said Abbott should give what the furious Indonesian Government wants - a guarantee Australia would never do it again.

Gillard cited the precedent set last month by President Barack Obama when other Snowden leaks showed the US had monitored the mobile phone of German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Obama spoke to Merkel by phone and made a promise. "If he had been aware he wouldn't have authorised it, and he could certainly say for the future that it wouldn't happen again," Gillard told CNN.

"That's an appropriate response from Australia to Indonesia."

Shorten suggested the same: "The example of the United States and the way that it handled a similar issue with Germany provides the opportunity for us to consider the same course of action."

But Gillard and Shorten don't realise that Obama's precedent is not an inspiration but a blunder that threatens Western power, including our own. And that is why Abbott will not do what is in his political interest. It would destroy Labor, but hurt Australia.

You doubt it? Then you missed, say, the comments in Jakarta last week of Nikolai Levichev.

Levichev heads Russia's third-biggest party and is an ally of President Vladimir Putin, who gave Snowden asylum to keep him safe from US justice.

On Wednesday Levichev dropped in with a delegation on Indonesia's deputy speaker to discuss our spying, and afterwards attacked both Australia and the US.

"It is shameful that the wire-tapping was done to the leader of a friendly nation instead of terrorists." It violated diplomatic protocol and human rights.

"We have heard a lot of calls from the US for the world to uphold human rights and practise good diplomatic relations," said Levichev, whose own country is headed by a former spy chief accused of human rights abuses.

"But then they committed actions that contradicted their own preaching." Getting a picture?

First come leaks that show the US spied on Germany's leader.

America, embarrassed, says it won't do it again - because, after all, Germany's a friend.

Then come leaks that show Australia spied on Indonesia's leaders. Australia, embarrassed, is told to follow the US precedent and promise not to do it again - because, after all, Indonesia's a

friend. For now.

And after the next leaks?

Oh, yes, the Government believes there will be more. Levichev told Indonesian politicians they could visit Snowden in Russia to ask exactly what Australia had been up to, and Leftist journalists still sit on a mountain of Snowden's stolen material.

So if we promise to stop spying on Indonesian leaders, we're almost certain soon to have to follow our own precedent - as we're now told to follow Obama's - and promise the same to other countries, increasingly more threatening. China, maybe?

Who gains as we and our strongest ally pluck out our own eyes? Not us. Not our friends.

So, yes, Abbott could give in to Indonesia - nothing easier - and make Labor seem cowboys, wreckers and hypocrites.

Instead, he's kept his head, endured Labor's insults and acted not in his own interests but in Australia's. At last, an adult in charge.

[Chard]

Goddamn that's a terribly naive and poorly thought out article...

Look, allies spy on each other. It's part of how governments arrive at informed decisions on policy. You simply cannot make a lot of decisions without having a good idea of how your allies and trading partners will react to it, and a lot of the information you need to know are things you cannot openly ask about without giving away your own intentions.

Either get used to it or resign yourselves to never being a major player in international politics.