Debt and raising the Debt limit.

[Rorschach]

Labor are at it again with their lies.
They must think everyone out here are morons. They are deliberately confusing the issue of debt and raising the debt limit. They are not the same thing.
Debt is money owed.
The Debt limit is how much we can borrow.
To put in in language nearly everyone can relate to... what the government wants to do is increase their "credit card limit" so if they need to they can access funds to pay for things. They don't want to increase DEBT, they want the ability to cover the debt. Labor are lying.

Some people have the audacity to ridicule Hockey and call him stupid for wanting to do that. Well, the problem is that government expenditure and debt is increasing due to the policies of the previous Labor government.

By the end of the year they will need to cover at least $374,000,000,000 and the debt limit is set to $300,000,000,000... so we are already in a hole.

The next MYEFO is due out in December, it may be delayed. But I suspect Hockey has a fair idea what the figure on debt will be.

The Greens and Labor are willing to let the government increase the limit to $400,000,000,000... but if the figures come out to $440,000,000,000 then that will not be enough. It is recommended by treasury that the Government allow a $40-50,000,000,000 buffer. Hence the $500,000,000,000. If I was the government I'd snap up the $400,000,000,000 and then when necessary have it increased. Hockey just wants to do it in one go and clear the decks. But if Labor and the Greens want to play silly buggers and keep the issue alive as a political ploy, which BTW only reflects on their poor performance than let them.

The Coalition Government will not own the National Debt until Labor's is cleared. Labor is shooting itself in the foot for little or no political gain. The people have already judged them and turfed them out. It is time they came to grips with that.

[mantra]

Labor are at it again with their lies.
They must think everyone out here are morons. They are deliberately confusing the issue of debt and raising the debt limit. They are not the same thing.
Debt is money owed.
The Debt limit is how much we can borrow.
To put in in language nearly everyone can relate to... what the government wants to do is increase their "credit card limit" so if they need to they can access funds to pay for things.

Don't talk to us like 5 year olds. Of course everyone knows the difference - that's not the point of the opposition to it. Labor are demanding transparency and accountability - alien words as far as the government is concerned.

They don't want to increase DEBT, they want the ability to cover the debt. Labor are lying.

Wrong. They have a huge black hole of their own making in their promised pre-election budget. The first $100 billion will go in 5 minutes and that's why they want $200 billion because they know they'll need the next $100 billion within the first year of government.

Some people have the audacity to ridicule Hockey and call him stupid for wanting to do that. Well, the problem is that government expenditure and debt is increasing due to the policies of the previous Labor government.

Like what for example? Maybe this is true - but let's hear what these policy blowouts are first, before just taking the Coalition's rhetorical spiel as gospel.

By the end of the year they will need to cover at least $374,000,000,000 and the debt limit is set to $300,000,000,000... so we are already in a hole.

The next MYEFO is due out in December, it may be delayed. But I suspect Hockey has a fair idea what the figure on debt will be.

He needs to tell the opposition what the government wants it for - the same way the Coalition demanded a detailed costing of each increment of $50 billion the Labor government borrowed.

The Greens and Labor are willing to let the government increase the limit to $400,000,000,000... but if the figures come out to $440,000,000,000 then that will not be enough. It is recommended by treasury that the Government allow a $40-50,000,000,000 buffer. Hence the $500,000,000,000. If I was the government I'd snap up the $400,000,000,000 and then when necessary have it increased. Hockey just wants to do it in one go and clear the decks. But if Labor and the Greens want to play silly buggers and keep the issue alive as a political ploy, which BTW only reflects on their poor performance than let them.

Most sensible people would snap up the $400 billion - but Hockey will stand his ground on principle. He is accusing Labor of being a tea party and obstructing government spending. He should be booted out for this accusation. These wild and fanciful statements could scare investors off.

The Coalition Government will not own the National Debt until Labor's is cleared. Labor is shooting itself in the foot for little or no political gain. The people have already judged them and turfed them out. It is time they came to grips with that.

Oh you mean the way the Coalition came to grips with Labor in charge? That is a ridiculous comment. The opposition is there for a purpose and that's to keep the government accountable. Why shouldn't the electorate know what's going on.

This secrecy surrounding the government won't do any good. If people don't know what they're doing - they'll guess instead and that could be worse for them than actually telling the truth for a change.

[Neferti]

Mantra, the huge debt that the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government left didn't get wiped when the Abbott Government came to power. We still have to pay all that back. All they have done is increase the credit limit so we are able to cover the bills and have some leeway for the future expenses. We don't want the cheques to bounce Would you rather that they raise Income Tax?

[Rorschach]

Labor are at it again with their lies.
They must think everyone out here are morons. They are deliberately confusing the issue of debt and raising the debt limit. They are not the same thing.
Debt is money owed.
The Debt limit is how much we can borrow.
To put in in language nearly everyone can relate to... what the government wants to do is increase their "credit card limit" so if they need to they can access funds to pay for things.

Don't talk to us like 5 year olds. Of course everyone knows the difference - that's not the point of the opposition to it. Labor are demanding transparency and accountability - alien words as far as the government is concerned. Why don't you just shut up or address reality like I do. If you like I can talk to you like a 5 year old...
As usual you fall for the Labor line and spout it.

They don't want to increase DEBT, they want the ability to cover the debt. Labor are lying.

Wrong. They have a huge black hole of their own making in their promised pre-election budget. The first $100 billion will go in 5 minutes and that's why they want $200 billion because they know they'll need the next $100 billion within the first year of government.
Oh dear in 2 months and without passing any legislation they've racked up debt and created... wait for it " a huge black hole".... well yes mantra Labor Government policy debt.

Some people have the audacity to ridicule Hockey and call him stupid for wanting to do that. Well, the problem is that government expenditure and debt is increasing due to the policies of the previous Labor government.

Like what for example? Well you should know you called Hockey stupid Maybe this is true - but let's hear what these policy blowouts are first, before just taking the Coalition's rhetorical spiel as gospel.

By the end of the year they will need to cover at least $374,000,000,000 and the debt limit is set to $300,000,000,000... so we are already in a hole.

The next MYEFO is due out in December, it may be delayed. But I suspect Hockey has a fair idea what the figure on debt will be.

He needs to tell the opposition what the government wants it for - the same way the Coalition demanded a detailed costing of each increment of $50 billion the Labor government borrowed.

The opposition knows what he wants it for... they are trying to confuse the issue... do please try to read occasionally.

The Greens and Labor are willing to let the government increase the limit to $400,000,000,000... but if the figures come out to $440,000,000,000 then that will not be enough. It is recommended by treasury that the Government allow a $40-50,000,000,000 buffer. Hence the $500,000,000,000. If I was the government I'd snap up the $400,000,000,000 and then when necessary have it increased. Hockey just wants to do it in one go and clear the decks. But if Labor and the Greens want to play silly buggers and keep the issue alive as a political ploy, which BTW only reflects on their poor performance than let them.

Most sensible people would snap up the $400 billion - but Hockey will stand his ground on principle. He is accusing Labor of being a tea party and obstructing government spending. He should be booted out for this accusation. These wild and fanciful statements could scare investors off.

Come off it... they aren't wild and fanciful at all. Admittedly he is using a comparison many Australians wouldn't even understand but... the principle IS the same.

The Coalition Government will not own the National Debt until Labor's is cleared. Labor is shooting itself in the foot for little or no political gain. The people have already judged them and turfed them out. It is time they came to grips with that.

Oh you mean the way the Coalition came to grips with Labor in charge? That is a ridiculous comment. No it is not. The opposition is there for a purpose and that's to keep the government accountable. Why shouldn't the electorate know what's going on. Well it seems mantra only the stupid and ignorant don't.

This secrecy surrounding the government won't do any good. If people don't know what they're doing - they'll guess instead and that could be worse for them than actually telling the truth for a change.

Puhlease what secrecy? there is none. just people dumb enough to keep repeating the propaganda.

[Rorschach]

Mantra, the huge debt that the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government left didn't get wiped when the Abbott Government came to power. We still have to pay all that back. All they have done is increase the credit limit so we are able to cover the bills and have some leeway for the future expenses. We don't want the cheques to bounce Would you rather that they raise Income Tax?

Or they could cut services and welfare payments nef...

Good to see you proving my point about people understanding the situation.
Unlike others too biased and bitter to face reality.

[Neferti]

Mantra, the huge debt that the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government left didn't get wiped when the Abbott Government came to power. We still have to pay all that back. All they have done is increase the credit limit so we are able to cover the bills and have some leeway for the future expenses. We don't want the cheques to bounce Would you rather that they raise Income Tax?

Or they could cut services and welfare payments nef...

Good to see you proving my point about people understanding the situation.
Unlike others too biased and bitter to face reality.

Yes, Rorschach. I know how to budget, save and live within my means. Others don't seem to.

What the Lefties don't understand, it seems, is that Australia doesn't have a Money Tree. We have the The Mint here in Canberra but they can't just "print off more coins/notes".

The huge debt that Labor racked up has to be paid back. Plus there are continuing expenses that need to be covered as well .... increasing Income Tax is one way, reducing welfare is another ... not sure about what services the Federal Government controls that could be cut ... hospitals, schools, roads, etc tend to be State responsibilities.

The Government is already looking at cutting welfare payments, especially the Disability Pension which became so easy to get under the Labor Government. Morbidly Obese people are considered to have a disability, for god's sake!

God knows how some people manage to survive in their own lives. Unfortunately, we have encouraged a generation of people who think the Government owes them a living. Welfare recipients do not pay income tax, so zilch goes into the bank from that lot.

Suddenly, the lefties are saying The Opposition is there to oppose .... Isn't that what we were telling them for the past 6 years? No clue! As an aside, I saw the word "clew" written somewhere recently, obviously the journos who went to school under an ALP Government (State or Federal) haven't been taught English or how to spell words that have a similar sound but mean something else.

clew
kluː/
noun
noun: clew; plural noun: clews

1.
the lower or after corner of a sail.
2.
Sailing
the cords by which a hammock is suspended.
3.
archaic
a ball of thread.
4.
archaic variant of clue.

verb
Sailing
verb: clew; 3rd person present: clews; past tense: clewed; past participle: clewed; gerund or present participle: clewing

1.
raise (or lower) a square sail by the clews when furling (or unfurling).

[mantra]

Mantra, the huge debt that the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government left didn't get wiped when the Abbott Government came to power. We still have to pay all that back. All they have done is increase the credit limit so we are able to cover the bills and have some leeway for the future expenses. We don't want the cheques to bounce Would you rather that they raise Income Tax?

Or they could cut services and welfare payments nef...

Good to see you proving my point about people understanding the situation.
Unlike others too biased and bitter to face reality.

Yes, Rorschach. I know how to budget, save and live within my means. Others don't seem to.

What the Lefties don't understand, it seems, is that Australia doesn't have a Money Tree. We have the The Mint here in Canberra but they can't just "print off more coins/notes".

Don't you think it's the other way around. The previous Coalition government was the one who did the porkbarrelling - baby bonus, immunisation rewards, family tax payment etc. Did we have any of that under a Hawke/Keating government? We survived. Did you hear the uproar when Gillard cut the single parent pension back so that a mother had to start looking for work when the child was 8? Under the Hawke/Keating government - no-one could live on a single parents pension. Most mothers worked without thinking twice about it. The Howard government alone made people comfortable on welfare.

The Howard government also eliminated means testing - so a millionaire was entitled to the same handouts as a handicapped person. Labor gradually reintroduced means testing. Welfare was never generous under Labor and was only used by those who were truly desperate. When the Gillard government tried to cut down a bit - the screams of "unfair" emanated from millionaire's row.

The huge debt that Labor racked up has to be paid back. Plus there are continuing expenses that need to be covered as well .... increasing Income Tax is one way, reducing welfare is another ... not sure about what services the Federal Government controls that could be cut ... hospitals, schools, roads, etc tend to be State responsibilities.

The huge debt that Labor racked up is about to go up by 70% under an Abbott government. We have to pay that back too remember. The Commonwealth is still getting revenue and services are being stripped to the bone. Why aren't they working within their limits. After Abbott's boasts about stopping the reckless spending - why isn't the Commonwealth tightening its belt as they promised? Instead Hockey is expanding it by 200 billion notches.

The Government is already looking at cutting welfare payments, especially the Disability Pension which became so easy to get under the Labor Government. Morbidly Obese people are considered to have a disability, for god's sake!

Morbidly obese people obviously do have a disability. They are almost unemployable and a huge drain on the health system. Maybe Abbott should cut off their pensions and that way at least they'd lose some weight. Anorexia is also a disability - so is depression and a host of other issues. Did you know that the number of people on a disability pension increased by about 30% under Howard?

God knows how some people manage to survive in their own lives. Unfortunately, we have encouraged a generation of people who think the Government owes them a living. Welfare recipients do not pay income tax, so zilch goes into the bank from that lot.

Welfare recipients do pay tax if they have a casual or part-time job - some even have a full time job.

Suddenly, the lefties are saying The Opposition is there to oppose .... Isn't that what we were telling them for the past 6 years? No clue! As an aside, I saw the word "clew" written somewhere recently, obviously the journos who went to school under an ALP Government (State or Federal) haven't been taught English or how to spell words that have a similar sound but mean something else.

There are spelling mistakes in most media articles. It will get worse not better. Why would you blame Labor for the poor state of affairs in literacy? The Coalition has shared power with them. Why aren't they getting the blame too?

That's the problem with righties - they blame the lefties for all the woes of the world and refuse to take responsibility for their own failings. Who signed us up to a couple of wars with George Bush? Who's paying for the ramifications now? And they are far reaching down to the majority of the refugees who have been trying to escape the brutality which has escalated since our interference.

Giving refugees the dole was a cheaper alternative than housing them in detention. What's it costing us now with Abbott's allegedly stopping the boats? We will never know because he's rat cunning and won't say. He just gave two of our Class B patrol ships to Sri Lanka - a nation accused of war crimes. How much are those boats worth and how much monetary assistance is he giving them so he can "stop the boats"?

[Neferti]

Mantra,

The tax free threshold went up from July 2012.

http://ato.gov.au/Rates/Tax-free-thresh ... dividuals/

Income tax rates 2012-13
Taxable income Tax on this income

0 – $18,200 - Nil

$18,201 – $37,000 - 19c for each $1 over $18,200

$37,001 – $80,000 - $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000

$80,001 – $180,000 - $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000

$180,001 and over - $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

[Chard]

Out of curiosity, does your government define income as wages earned or do they also include things like annuities and dividends from investments? Over here we have a completely different set of rules governing profits from investments (stocks and bonds, IRA accounts, ect) then they do for income taxes (which are based only on wages paid by an employer, people who work for themselves have yet another set of rules for taxes). The reason I ask is that the differences in what is earned vs taxes paid for Capital Gains taxes can be wildly different than those used for income tax, and the loopholes involved provide an effective means for people to avoid paying full taxes on their total income (i.e very wealthy people pay less taxes as a percentage of their income because we can afford better accountants).

[Neferti]

Out of curiosity, does your government define income as wages earned or do they also include things like annuities and dividends from investments? Over here we have a completely different set of rules governing profits from investments (stocks and bonds, IRA accounts, ect) then they do for income taxes (which are based only on wages paid by an employer, people who work for themselves have yet another set of rules for taxes). The reason I ask is that the differences in what is earned vs taxes paid for Capital Gains taxes can be wildly different than those used for income tax, and the loopholes involved provide an effective means for people to avoid paying full taxes on their total income (i.e very wealthy people pay less taxes as a percentage of their income because we can afford better accountants).

Chard, I was talking about tax on wages/salaries in the above post. Our Financial Year is 1 July to 30 June, FYI. Shortly after that date you receive a Group Certificate from your employer that sets out what your income was for the year and how much tax you paid (deducted by the employer). I've always used a Tax Accountant as I imagine most people do if they have extra income from other sources (such as investments, etc). The fee for the Tax Accountant is claimed back the following year as a tax deduction ...

Another member here might be able to answer your questions, otherwise have a look at the Australian Taxation Office site http://ato.gov.au/.