Education: General Discussion

[Sexy Lady]

In 2010, Australia was ranked 6th in world education.
In 2012, Australia was ranked 47th in world education.

Edit: Both rankings are derived from OECD.

Wog girl, what do you think are the triggers that have caused this significant decline in Australian educational results in such a short period of time?

Wait a minute, PISA have ranked us ninth not 42nd but, yes, we were sixth in 2010. My mistake. China are first because, on average, their students spend about 15 hours per week on their studies outside of school. Doubt Aussie kids devote that much time.

Most likely, PISA are using different measures to the OECD.

So you do not think that it has anything to do with the quality of teaching staff or teaching techquies wog girl? Rather it is the students not spending enough time on their studies? If time is the issue, do you think we should increase school hours?

[Sexy Lady]

Intelligentsia would argue that whilst it is that our ability to think abstractly... as measured through IQ tests, has increased, so that current generations are capable of thinking more abstractly than previous generations, these same people lack sufficient general knowledge to apply abstractions.

You can see this in play every day in society. For example, get a group of people with average IQ's together to discuss football and they will dissect that topic with a level of ability to be admired. Change that subject to say... The Jury System and the topic will die a quick death due to lack of knowledge.

Yet which is the more important topic... The rule of law or games played with balls?

[IQS.RLOW]

My wife is currently in the midst of her education degree and the current unit is indigenous education. The course outline gives gives plenty of study material relating to the stolen generations, rabbit proof fence, Manne etc but counter arguments (eg. Windshuttle) are presented as footnotes to be read if the student is interested.

So, I proposed she raise the question "Are we as a society acting as 'enablers' by seeing the indigenous as either victims or criminals because that is the only way the media know how to portray them?"
Early media notorised them as dangerous savages and modern media as nothing but victims. What effect would that have on any persons psyche?

How can a society think abstractly when the educators aren't taught to teach abstract thinking and parroting the socio-political theme of the day is Raison d'être?

I mentioned this in another thread that the slipping of standards is directly related to the introduction of outcomes based education. For example, the parroting of the whole of word learning method being adopted without rhyme nor reason and the acceptance by the departments without thought for the consequence.

[Outlaw Yogi]

I know what damaged education standards.

It's a politically correct social engineering project called 'affirmative action'.

A regime where promotion is based on gender or race rather than merit or ability.

Lots of male teachers quit and took up alternate professions because lesser qualified or lesser experienced individuals were promoted over them because they were female. Several years later there was an outcry obout no male role models in modern schools.

The education system was vandalised to implement a political ideaology that ultimately is failing.

[mellie]

Australia’s education system is particularly effective for immigrant students. Students from schools with a
high concentration of immigrant students (50% of whom are immigrants themselves), tend to achieve
slightly higher reading scores. Chart A5.1 illustrates a positive correlation between the reading scores of
Australian students and the concentration of immigrants within the school they attend. The country ranks
third among 31 OECD member and partner countries in this regard.

http://www.oecd.org/australia/EAG2012%2 ... tralia.pdf

[wog_girl]

The quality of teachers has diminshed and I will be the first to admit that. The problem is the universities - they just don't teach the future teachers very well. I wanted to specialise in science, mathematics and physical education but the elective subjects available were so distorted that I was better off just sleeping through the lectures and reading my high school text books. In the end I got nothing out of my time at university and put alot of my own time just in getting up to scratch - something I would have thought the university should have done considering the money I paid. There was so much focus on failed and unproven ideologies making learning fun at all times rather than the core content which students must learn to get a job. Believe me, teachers don't need to be told the best way to deliver a lesson - we quickly figure it out once in the classroom and it is always changing. On top of that, we have to put up with the "spare the rod, spoil the child" idiocy of education bureaucracy.

[Mattus]

Let me guess, you went to a "university" which was a former teaching college, completely lacks any credible basic science or mathematics program, requires no pre-requisites beyond a pass grade in english, and you are surprised at the nursery school bullshit you had to sit through in first year?

If your professors taught only basic pedagogy backed by high school level knowledge, it's not because they didn't know or couldn't offer any better. After all, they are professors and you are just a school teacher. It's because the sorts of students who get into education based on their entry scores would struggle and fail with anything more challenging. Pretty sure they were working their asses off just to get you lot passed through.

Lets face it, if you had the grades to deal with a serious science program, why would you be taking education?

[wog_girl]

Let me guess, you went to a "university" which was a former teaching college, completely lacks any credible basic science or mathematics program, requires no pre-requisites beyond a pass grade in english, and you are surprised at the nursery school bullshit you had to sit through in first year?

If your professors taught only basic pedagogy backed by high school level knowledge, it's not because they didn't know or couldn't offer any better. After all, they are professors and you are just a school teacher. It's because the sorts of students who get into education based on their entry scores would struggle and fail with anything more challenging. Pretty sure they were working their asses off just to get you lot passed through.

Lets face it, if you had the grades to deal with a serious science program, why would you be taking education?

No I went to a university which was well known for its Science, Maths and Technology facilities. We were supposedly taught by lecturers who were leaders in their field and our cohort had excellent literacy skills, thank you. They actually didn't teach the pedagogies that was in place in schools to ensure that children's knowledge of science, maths, the arts, sport, literacy, tech studies, etc was always built on and nurtured - they pushed pedagogies that had long been rejected by both the private and public schooling system yet they held onto them because of fuck knows why. They didn't have to work their asses off to get me to pass - I passed everything with flying colours (distinctions and high distinctions), never had to resubmit any assignments and I received a Year 12 TER score of mid-90s, and so did many others in my cohort, so that blows your petty insults out of the water. I wanted to be a teacher because it is a great profession and education is my passion. The politics of education, however, are doing alot of harm.

[Mattus]

Rubbish. Although the irony of a teacher blaming their own much smarter, more highly educated and paid teachers for them being unable to hack it in the workplace is utterly delicious.

Education isn't a career choice, it's a backup plan for failures. The entry scores are the lowest of the low, there are no pre-requisites, and the program is offered by institutes which are hardly universities but little more than tafes. Teachers, while well paid and with tenurable career paths, are not respected by the community. They are seen as overpaid, poorly educated babysitters who work half days or mothers hours. As a result no one with decent scores wants to be one and the downward spiral continues.

That is not to say there are not a minority of truely talented and energetic people called to the vocation because it is an honest passion. Who knows, perhaps you are one of those few who gave up the option of medicine to teach disinterested youth. But the vast majority are under performing slackers, and should be ashamed.

[mantra]

Education isn't a career choice, it's a backup plan for failures.

I'm sure many well meaning and ambitious people enter the profession because they genuinely want to teach then become disillusioned with the system. They are no longer allowed to control the classroom.

The entry scores are the lowest of the low, there are no pre-requisites, and the program is offered by institutes which are hardly universities but little more than tafes.

It's a worry when you see children who struggled through school - always being at the bottom of the class, suddenly being accepted into uni to do teaching. I have seen this occur over the last decade, although it would have started long before. Only the bright children will survive the system now and perhaps that's the way it's meant to be.

The standard of education in the US declined a long time before ours did, so the dumbed down young population became available for cannon fodder in their numerous wars. Perhaps this is planned for Australia?