Home Made Hydrogen.

[BigP]

""I have a Jet Pulse Engine in my Garage that im still yet to fire up after many years ""

Why is that Brain, Is your design a complex one ?

Pulse Jets in their most simple form are Just a chamber with diferent sized holes at either end,,

Mmm, not quite. From my memory, pulse jets consist of a little bit more. The Germans developed one which consisted of some doors, a fuel injector and a long combustion chamber/tail pipe. They had to get it accelerated to IIRC about 100 mph to get it to light and used a steam catapult to achieve that. The Americans copied the Fi103 and used solid fuel rockets to accelerate it.

A simple pulse et Brian

[brian ross]

""I have a Jet Pulse Engine in my Garage that im still yet to fire up after many years ""

Why is that Brain, Is your design a complex one ?

Pulse Jets in their most simple form are Just a chamber with diferent sized holes at either end,,

Mmm, not quite. From my memory, pulse jets consist of a little bit more. The Germans developed one which consisted of some doors, a fuel injector and a long combustion chamber/tail pipe. They had to get it accelerated to IIRC about 100 mph to get it to light and used a steam catapult to achieve that. The Americans copied the Fi103 and used solid fuel rockets to accelerate it.

A simple pulse et Brian

Interesting but no info on how much thrust it puts out. You also have the problem of lighting it.

[BigP]

""I have a Jet Pulse Engine in my Garage that im still yet to fire up after many years ""

Why is that Brain, Is your design a complex one ?

Pulse Jets in their most simple form are Just a chamber with diferent sized holes at either end,,

Mmm, not quite. From my memory, pulse jets consist of a little bit more. The Germans developed one which consisted of some doors, a fuel injector and a long combustion chamber/tail pipe. They had to get it accelerated to IIRC about 100 mph to get it to light and used a steam catapult to achieve that. The Americans copied the Fi103 and used solid fuel rockets to accelerate it.

A simple pulse et Brian

Interesting but no info on how much thrust it puts out. You also have the problem of lighting it.

The original point was that pulse jets in their most simple form are just a tube with a couple of holes in it,,

[Outlaw Yogi]

Well I've been banging on for over 20 years now that hydrogen to run internal combustion engines is the future of motor transport.

The petroleum industry poo pooed it 'coz it's a direct threat to their existence. They claimed it took more energy to extract hydrogen from water than to distil petrol from petroleum oil. To separate petroleum oil into its derivatives requires heating to a minimum 600C, but 900C is the current standard. That takes quite a bit of energy. Most oil refineries use large electric resisters acting as heater elements, but are being replaced by gas burners because it's more economical.

Ulf Bosel's 'The Hydrogen Economy' spells out what's required, but his comparison with petroleum oil distillation is flawed because he omitted the energy input of petroleum distillation as if it came from thin air but not the energy input of hydrogen extraction.
Ulf Bosel works for the methanol industry. If hydrogen as motor fuel took off, methanol wouldn't get in the game.

To separate oxygen and hydrogen atoms from water molecules requires 1.7 volts. You could do that with a PV solar panel in your back yard. Up the voltage and increase the process. Using saline rather than fresh water speeds it up even more.

The critical factors with storing hydrogen are the cylinder materials. Hydrogen atoms are the smallest in existence and so literally leak through the wall of steel cylinders (eg LPG/CNG cylinders). I figured this could be remedied by coating the cylinder interior with latex, silicone rubber or bio-mimicry created ceramics/glass but the Yanks are using Kevlar. One crew in the US has a Corvette with a 350 Chev motor and 8 Kevlar cylinders (4 is their standard) which allows 700km travel before refilling is needed.

Govts are hesitant to implement it because if people do it in their back shed the govt misses out on the fuel excise.
Remember the "Make your own bio-diesel" adds years ago? Yeah well making your own fuel is legal, but as soon as you take it on the road the Fed gov wants their excise duty.

Safety? Hydrogen is much safer than petrol or LPG/CNG (methane) because hydrogen is lighter than air, so if there's an accidental ignition the flame blows straight up in the air. When methane or petrol blevies it expands sideways burning everything in its reach.

So if petroleum oil based motor fuels are to be phased out there's no need to retool the vehicle industry, just change the fuel and run with gas systems like those used for LPG/CNG (methane).

If oil companies had any sense they'd adopt and take the industry over themselves. All you need is electricity and water. You wouldn't need refineries or tankers to transport fuel. It could be dome onsite at refilling stations.
I envisage motor bikes having screw in replaceable cylinders instead of petrol tanks.

[Serial Brain 9]

Well I've been banging on for over 20 years now that hydrogen to run internal combustion engines is the future of motor transport.

The petroleum industry poo pooed it 'coz it's a direct threat to their existence. They claimed it took more energy to extract hydrogen from water than to distil petrol from petroleum oil. To separate petroleum oil into its derivatives requires heating to a minimum 600C, but 900C is the current standard. That takes quite a bit of energy. Most oil refineries use large electric resisters acting as heater elements, but are being replaced by gas burners because it's more economical.

Ulf Bosel's 'The Hydrogen Economy' spells out what's required, but his comparison with petroleum oil distillation is flawed because he omitted the energy input of petroleum distillation as if it came from thin air but not the energy input of hydrogen extraction.
Ulf Bosel works for the methanol industry. If hydrogen as motor fuel took off, methanol wouldn't get in the game.

To separate oxygen and hydrogen atoms from water molecules requires 1.7 volts. You could do that with a PV solar panel in your back yard. Up the voltage and increase the process. Using saline rather than fresh water speeds it up even more.

The critical factors with storing hydrogen are the cylinder materials. Hydrogen atoms are the smallest in existence and so literally leak through the wall of steel cylinders (eg LPG/CNG cylinders). I figured this could be remedied by coating the cylinder interior with latex, silicone rubber or bio-mimicry created ceramics/glass but the Yanks are using Kevlar. One crew in the US has a Corvette with a 350 Chev motor and 8 Kevlar cylinders (4 is their standard) which allows 700km travel before refilling is needed.

Govts are hesitant to implement it because if people do it in their back shed the govt misses out on the fuel excise.
Remember the "Make your own bio-diesel" adds years ago? Yeah well making your own fuel is legal, but as soon as you take it on the road the Fed gov wants their excise duty.

Safety? Hydrogen is much safer than petrol or LPG/CNG (methane) because hydrogen is lighter than air, so if there's an accidental ignition the flame blows straight up in the air. When methane or petrol blevies it expands sideways burning everything in its reach.

So if petroleum oil based motor fuels are to be phased out there's no need to retool the vehicle industry, just change the fuel and run with gas systems like those used for LPG/CNG (methane).

If oil companies had any sense they'd adopt and take the industry over themselves. All you need is electricity and water. You wouldn't need refineries or tankers to transport fuel. It could be dome onsite at refilling stations.
I envisage motor bikes having screw in replaceable cylinders instead of petrol tanks.

Interesting

[BigP]

""To separate petroleum oil into its derivatives requires heating to a minimum 600C, but 900C""

Sounds high to me Yogi, sure you aint talkin F,,

[BigP]

The info I have looked at gives temps of 40c to 370c

[brian ross]

The biggest problem with using Hydrogen in cars is that of storage.

As alluded, storing hydrogen is difficult using present day technology. It "leaks" out of the walls of steel cylinders and they hold too little to give a standard car a viable range.

20 or more years ago, the Americans were working on storing Hydrogen in solid substrates. This allowed far more to be carried and the container could be more than a cylinder or a sphere in shape, it could literally be cubical or square in shape. Where that experiment work went, I have no idea.

Like electricity, if more research was done on how to store the energy source than on just utilising the energy sources, it would speed up their application tremendously. Batteries, even Li-On batteries, weigh appreciably more than liquid hydrocarbons, just as gas cylinders are difficult to store in a standard shaped car. If Governments were really interested in alternative fuels, they'd fund more research in energy storage.

[Valkie]

Governments were really interested in alternative fuels, they'd fund more research in energy storage.

Grubberments have three primary agenda.
1) to get into power or have their own department and stay there, by whatever means is possible, moral or immoral.
2) to fund said department or grubberment by whatever means, moral or immoral, by taking from taxpayers before their business mates that pay them bribes.
3) to make as much money as possible, immoral or illegal, so that they can get out before they are caught out and arrested.

The only reason they would even contemplate the possibility of thinking about funding a worthwhile cause, is if they think it will get them some voters ( see 1 and 2 above)

The grubberment is full of pathetic failures who care nothing about anyone but themselves.
And
Politicians are 1000 times worse.

[brian ross]

Jealousy is such a curse, isn't it, Valkie? Tut, tut, don't worry, most of us appreciate the efforts of Government to help society.