Derogatory comments on the internet

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mantra
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Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by mantra » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:28 am

We've heard stories of employers reading negative comments about themselves on Facebook and sacking the perpetrator or at the very least disciplining them, but a judge has ruled that badmouthing your boss on Facebook shouldn't be punished with a sacking and is unjust at the very least.

Does this ruling path the way for a little more freedom of expression? Real names were used and although there was no slander - the comments weren't PC. Perhaps we've taken being PC too far, although is the alternative going to be worse?

A UNION delegate sacked for lampooning a Muslim colleague as a "bacon hater" on Facebook has won back his job. Glen Stutsel, a driver with transport giant Linfox, also abused two of his managers on the social networking website.

He had been discussing the habits of bears in a Facebook chat with another employee.

He also said: " ... I admire any creature that has the capacity to rip Nina and Assaf heads off, shit down their throats and then chew up and spit out their lifeless body!"

The two managers, Nina Russell and Michael Assaf, complained the comments were racially derogatory, sexual discrimination and harassment.

Linfox dismissed the 22-year veteran. But he won back his job with back pay after taking an unfair dismissal case to Fair Work Australia.

Tribunal commissioner Michael Roberts found Mr Stutsel's treatment was "harsh, unjust and unreasonable". Ms Russell had complained she was "deeply upset that an employee working within the contract I manage appears to have articulated in graphic detail what can only be described as my torture, mutilation and death".

"I find it both revolting and frightening that such a horrific comment has been made about me on a social networking website which is very much in the public domain and is heavily trafficked by my colleagues and direct reports. "In addition, I was concerned that Mr Stutsel's views would be deeply offensive to Mr Stutsel's site manager, Mr Michael Assaf, who is one of my direct reports and is a practising Muslim."

Mr Assaf said he was "horrified to see that Mr Stutsel had made comments of a religious nature on Facebook".Mr Stutsel maintained his Facebook account had "maximum privacy restrictions" and was not at the time "open to the public". He denied making racist remarks and making a statement about Ms Russell that amounted to sexual discrimination or harassment.

Mr Roberts was told the reference to "bacon hater" was not an expression of racial hatred but was "totally inappropriate and totally regrettable workplace banter".

The bear comments contained "no real threat of violence towards any managers" and were no more than an expression of some antipathy and hostility. Mr Roberts found Mr Stutsel was not guilty of serious misconduct and there was no valid reason to sack him.

"I have concluded and find that the termination of Mr Stutsel's employment by Linfox was harsh, unjust and unreasonable," he said.

"I find that an order for compensation is required to achieve a just outcome for Mr Stutsel."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/s ... 6227991253

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AiA in Atlanta
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by AiA in Atlanta » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:32 am

Yeah, the employer is going too far. Luckily Australians have some protection regarding unfair dismissal. Americans have none.

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Bart
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Bart » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:47 pm

mantra wrote:We've heard stories of employers reading negative comments about themselves on Facebook and sacking the perpetrator or at the very least disciplining them, but a judge has ruled that badmouthing your boss on Facebook shouldn't be punished with a sacking and is unjust at the very least.

Does this ruling path the way for a little more freedom of expression? Real names were used and although there was no slander - the comments weren't PC. Perhaps we've taken being PC too far, although is the alternative going to be worse?


Not having a facebook or twit account so not entirely sure how they get created, but I've heard that they can they be created under any person's name.
Women...if they had brains they'd be men

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Mattus
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Mattus » Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:41 pm

How about an email?

I wonder how much taxpayer money Bobby Reich is going to cop from his unfair dismissal suit.
"I may be the first man to put a testicle in Germaine Greer's mouth"

-Heston Blumenthal

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mantra
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by mantra » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:04 pm

There's obviously some sort of protocol that public servants can't be sarcastic or cynical towards Ministers. Bowen didn't even get to see the email.

Who would want to work in the Public Service? He could have at least been warned - not fined so heavily. It would be pointless him lodging an appeal. The government isn't going to allow a precedent enabling their subordinates to tell them how useless they are.

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Neferti
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Neferti » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:13 pm

mantra wrote:There's obviously some sort of protocol that public servants can't be sarcastic or cynical towards Ministers. Bowen didn't even get to see the email.

Who would want to work in the Public Service? He could have at least been warned - not fined so heavily. It would be pointless him lodging an appeal. The government isn't going to allow a precedent enabling their subordinates to tell them how useless they are.
If you have never, ever been a Federal Public Servant you have no idea what the current protocol is and should cease and desist spouting off about something you have no idea about.

I very much doubt that a Federal Minister (or even a State/Territory Minister) would have staff checking out Forums and Facebook but who knows? Pollies are creatures with egos. Although Mantra and Neferti are nom de plumes it would not take a Minister's staff very long to seek out who you are, if they wanted to and, I suspect, the ISPs would jump if they got the word from a Federal Minister (or ASIO, the Feds, etc). So? Doubtful but possible. ;)

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Super Nova
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Super Nova » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:25 pm

Yes, if they want you, they can get you unless you use the same techniques internet criminals use.

The effort is quite significant so most will never be pursued.

Nearly all cases I read about, the poster's identity is clear. It's clear on Facebook for example and you only need a friend to dob you in and your done for.

We all need to be careful. If you don't want it in the paper the next day... don't post it.
Always remember what you post, send or do on the internet is not private and you are responsible.

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mantra
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by mantra » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:35 pm

Neferti~ wrote:
mantra wrote:There's obviously some sort of protocol that public servants can't be sarcastic or cynical towards Ministers. Bowen didn't even get to see the email.

Who would want to work in the Public Service? He could have at least been warned - not fined so heavily. It would be pointless him lodging an appeal. The government isn't going to allow a precedent enabling their subordinates to tell them how useless they are.
If you have never, ever been a Federal Public Servant you have no idea what the current protocol is and should cease and desist spouting off about something you have no idea about.

I very much doubt that a Federal Minister (or even a State/Territory Minister) would have staff checking out Forums and Facebook but who knows? Pollies are creatures with egos. Although Mantra and Neferti are nom de plumes it would not take a Minister's staff very long to seek out who you are, if they wanted to and, I suspect, the ISPs would jump if they got the word from a Federal Minister (or ASIO, the Feds, etc). So? Doubtful but possible. ;)
I was talking about another incident in response to Mattus. The public servant was fined $1200 and Minister Chris Bowen didn't see the email.

Image

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/y ... 6229452055

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Neferti
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Neferti » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:39 pm

Super Nova wrote:Yes, if they want you, they can get you unless you use the same techniques internet criminals use.

The effort is quite significant so most will never be pursued.

Nearly all cases I read about, the poster's identity is clear. It's clear on Facebook for example and you only need a friend to dob you in and your done for.

We all need to be careful. If you don't want it in the paper the next day... don't post it.
I don't use Facebook I've never been in trouble with the Police or the ATO. However, if "they" (the Feds) want to find you, they can and will.

The old adage applies ... say no evil, do no evil and hear no evil :scare

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Neferti
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Re: Derogatory comments on the internet

Post by Neferti » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:44 pm

mantra wrote:
Neferti~ wrote:
mantra wrote:There's obviously some sort of protocol that public servants can't be sarcastic or cynical towards Ministers. Bowen didn't even get to see the email.

Who would want to work in the Public Service? He could have at least been warned - not fined so heavily. It would be pointless him lodging an appeal. The government isn't going to allow a precedent enabling their subordinates to tell them how useless they are.
If you have never, ever been a Federal Public Servant you have no idea what the current protocol is and should cease and desist spouting off about something you have no idea about.

I very much doubt that a Federal Minister (or even a State/Territory Minister) would have staff checking out Forums and Facebook but who knows? Pollies are creatures with egos. Although Mantra and Neferti are nom de plumes it would not take a Minister's staff very long to seek out who you are, if they wanted to and, I suspect, the ISPs would jump if they got the word from a Federal Minister (or ASIO, the Feds, etc). So? Doubtful but possible. ;)
I was talking about another incident in response to Mattus. The public servant was fined $1200 and Minister Chris Bowen didn't see the email.

Image

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/y ... 6229452055
Whatever? He asked for it. Whatever it was.

People denigrating pollies in general on a Forum should be immune, but that doesn't mean that they are.

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