Life after death

[Hebe]

No memes on the bus.

The short bus?

[mantra.]

I call BS on this. Got a reference?

Yes I have actually, as in this particular debate on Ozpolitics where the resident racist was claiming that Africans have a lower IQ than caucasians, I stumbled across some information on DNA memory and it makes perfect sense. You can look further into the following article.

Dr. Darold Treffert, a Wisconsin psychiatrist, has been studying Savant
Syndrome for nearly 40 years. In his observations, there appears to be
traits and abilities that can only be explained by the term genetic
memory or ancestoral memory. This is likened to philosopher Plato's theory
of an innate memory - we are born with memories inherited from our parents
and other relatives. Has the Human Genome Project discovered or mapped a
section of the DNA strand that may contain information such as
memories?

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/m ... e00666.htm

and

This argument that living memory effects the biology in DNA cheerfully throws a huge amount of natural selection and chromosome theory into the trash can of science. Indeed, can there be natural selection of genes if the individual actors can shape the outcome of their own DNA?

Yes and it doesn't dispose of natural selection and chromosone theory, but it does supply more answers to a great deal of unexplained behaviour. These theorists and researchers assume that we are born with our long term memories linked to our DNA. Our short term memories develop as we grow and learn, which in most cases are environmental depending on how we live, upbringing etc. This also would account for different levels of intelligence (not lesser) in various races.

Just a simple article as a basic explanation:

It has long been known that our physical appearance is determined by the combination of DNA from our mother and father. Now, researchers are confirming that certain diseases and disorders have direct links to our DNA. Our health may be programmed to some degree by our genetic history.

Our IQ and aptitudes, musical skills, athletic ability, even our psychological and emotional traits may be significantly affected by the DNA within us.

It has been demonstrated that experiences necessary for survival of a species are learned and that this knowledge is passed on to subsequent generations.

In some cases this is mostly likely at least partially through DNA and the unconscious "instinct" that results. Even tiny and simple organisms learn crucial survival skills and pass these on.

For humans, with our relatively complex brain, feelings and memories, what other kinds of experiences might be saved in our DNA over the many thousands of years when our ancestors were born, lived and died? And, can they be accessed by us here and now?

OUR ANCESTORS WITHIN US

Because learning about situations that are necessary for survival of a species are probably saved as a kind of unconscious genetic memory, those fundamental human experiences could be deep down in our DNA somewhere.

Let´s say you have always had a significant fear of bears since you were a child. Even Smokey the Bear and other friendly Hollywood bears could not convince you to regard bears with anything but anxiety and fearful feelings.

Maybe it is possible that deep, deep within your DNA memory banks, your great-great-great-great-grandmother or great-great-great-great-grandfather had a very bad experience with a bear two hundred years ago. Maybe they saw someone be killed by a bear. Maybe they had to climb a tree to save themselves from being eaten by a bear.

Would a life-changing experience like this, resulting in knowledge very useful for survival, possibly be encoded in the DNA and passed on to future generations and you?

Scientific researchers are gradually uncovering the secrets of our DNA. They have identified the functions of and relationships between some of this material. Many genes remain a mystery and their purpose is unknown.

Sometimes, these mystery genes are called “junk DNA.” According to some researchers, this may be an inaccurate label. Because the purpose and nature of this DNA material is not understood, it certainly does not mean it is useless junk.

As is often the case in scientific discovery, the more we know, the more we realize how little we know. Each question answered can raise many new questions.

For some, our human overconfidence and even arrogance can sometimes trick us into believing that we know all of the answers.

However, in the field of genetics research, there seems to be so much that is not known, that for an open-minded person, these kinds of theories about deep DNA memories cannot be ruled-out.

[TomB]

Yes I have actually .......... it makes perfect sense.

Well yes you have a reference but sorry it doesn't make any sense.

For starters it's a theory published online without peer review from a psych (a psych FFS! IME they are crazier than the rest of us) who hasn't got the slightest professional idea how DNA works or how it's inherited let alone the complicated stuff like how memory is stored.

Secondly the article specifically states "there is no evidence that literal memories are inherited", did you actually read it?

Lastly, I read the rest of that goobledegook and deduce that it's very similar in nature to creationist dribble with no factual backup but plenty of 'just cause science can't see it doesn't make it false, but I like it so it must be true '.

[mantra.]

Lastly, I read the rest of that goobledegook and deduce that it's very similar in nature to creationist dribble with no factual backup but plenty of 'just cause science can't see it doesn't make it false, but I like it so it must be true '.

Hmmm. You are right - to a point. The information I provided makes sense to me, but I did say it was only a theory, although it has been tested on rodents, but in a slightly different context. I know there's more information out there to support this research - I'll find it yet.

DNA is an area that still isn't understood and we have to have theories to begin with - otherwise we would learn nothing. Here's the rodent link & a small extract - if you're interested.

A new study shows that the machinery that regulates gene function during embryo development may be the same apparatus used to form memories—a finding that could pave the way for new therapies for certain mental illnesses.

Neuroscience long held that when a fetus is fully developed, a process called DNA methylation stops. (DNA methylation involves adding a bulky methyl group to a gene's DNA backbone, which obstructs the process of translating it into a protein.) The thinking was that since neurons or nerve cells are no longer replicating, there is no need for genes to be turned off (or on via demethylation), which happens as new cells morph into different roles in the nervous system.

New evidence has been mounting to the contrary, however, since 1987 when an enzyme that carries out methylation was found in the neurons of adults. A study in this week's Neuron provides key evidence that DNA methylation—also known to occur as cancerous cells divide, when tumor suppressor genes are silenced—occurs in adult brains and can be triggered by environmental cues. Study co-author David Sweatt, a neurobiologist at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, says the finding could provide new targets for treating mental illnesses such as schizophrenia and the autism-spectrum disorder Rett, conditions in which improper methylation switches off certain genes during development.

Recent research has shown that structural changes take place in chromatin (the complex that houses DNA in cells) while memories are being created. Methylation is among the so-called epigenetic processes—those not specifically designed to affect the genes—that can alter chromatin. So, Sweatt and study co-author Courtney Miller, a postdoctoral researcher, set about to determine if methylation plays a role in memory formation, homing in on the hippocampus, two curved regions in the mid-brain implicated in episodic memory.

They did this by training mice to fear a certain environment by sending mild shocks to their feet in a closed box. They removed the mice for 24 hours, but when placed back in the box, the mice adopted a frightened, frozen posture, indicating that they remembered their shocking experience there. The researchers removed hippocampal slices as they carried out the study to see whether any methylation or demethylation had taken place. "We had to take an educated guess as to what things might be changing in regards to their methylation state," Sweatt says. The team focused on two specific genes: protein phosphatase 1 (PP1), a known memory suppressor, and reelin, a memory-promoting gene.

Sure enough, within an hour of the exercise, reelin had been demethylated or switched on and PP1 had been shut down. The team repeated the experiment after the mice were given drugs to inhibit methylation. The results: the animals exhibited no fear when placed in the shock box again, indicating that the memory had not been stored.

Sweatt believes that his findings in the hippocampus apply to other regions involved in memory processing, including the cortex, the brain's outermost layer, and the amygdala, two almond-shaped structures in the midbrain. "I would speculate that this regulation of DNA methylation might well be a generic molecular device that's involved in all memory formation," he says. "Neurons everywhere may use this fundamental mechanism."

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=mem ... ethylation

[Outlaw Yogi]

I'm led to believe that [some] Australian Aboriginals believed that you reincarnate as your-self back into the same family every 7 generations. Some American Indians believed that if you died in battle, you reincarnate back into the opposing/enemy tribe ... it'd give you 2nd thoughts about starting a war, because the slain of the vanquished are reborn as decendants of the victors, and vice versa.

For those genuinely obsessed with reincarnation beliefs there is IMO no better explanation than 'Bardo Thodol/Tibetan book of the Dead'. If [as most people are] unfamilair with sanskrit termanology and concepts, a sanskrit to english translated dictionary would aid comprehension.
To make a drawn out story brief, acording to Bardo Thodol ... there is no god but that which you create for yourself ... everything depends on your beliefs .. if you believe it, that's what you experience. There is no god sitting in judgement .. you judge yourself - by the standards you used on others ... if you were a very critical or strict or righteous person, and so most likely a hypocrit, you'll judge yourself harshly and frighten yourself into your own hell.

While in the Bardo [between incarnaion] many experience a series of different coloured lights. The lights are invitations/gateways to various forms of existence depending on your desire. So for those who say "I want to come back as a dolphin" or tiger or a lazy South Coast cow or whatever creature, you can. From memory the green lights are the animal kingdom. Most people are so attached to something in physical life, possibly even physical existence itself they are uncontrolably sucked into the next available incarnation without consideration. So most people go staight for the blue light to be human again. But it is quite within anyone's means to not incarnate, or choose a more favourable life through choosing one's own parents, or by incarnating in a country/region with more favourable environmental, cultural or political factors.
Miserable whingy unhappy people will be drawn to the grey lights. They become what is known in sanskrit as 'preta' .. translates to English as 'hungry ghost'.

Also explains how to evade karma phalam/action fruits [= fruits of action .. not unlike Xians' reap what ye so] but I think probably the less Joe & Mary Blo know about that the better.

[Jovial Monk]

Glad this is in Off Topic. Life after death, reincarnation all the gobbledygook of the Dark Ages! Blah!

[boxy]

Glad this is in Off Topic. Life after death, reincarnation all the gobbledygook of the Dark Ages! Blah!

Hahaha... because politics is noted for it's lack of gobbledygook

[Jovial Monk]

Heh, got me there!