Are we heading for war with China?

[northofnorth]

The People's Liberation Army didn't "hold together" all that well over Tienanmen Square. The troops first sent in to implement the Communist Party's will were basically disarmed by the protestors. They were herded back onto their trucks and sent packing. The Party was forced to send in troops from surrounding provinces, who had not been "infected" with the protestors' view of the world. Those troops opened fire. They drove their APCs and Tanks over the protestors.

NorthofNorth get your facts straight.

Thanks Brian... Your pedantry reinforces my point!

[Nom De Plume]

China lacks (at the present moment and into the foreseeable future) the ability to threaten Australia.

The New York Times wrote this in 2018 under the headline of "With Ships and Missiles, China Is Ready to Challenge U.S. Navy in Pacific":
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/worl ... cific.html

A modernization program focused on naval and missile forces has shifted the balance of power in the Pacific in ways the United States and its allies are only beginning to digest.

While China lags in projecting firepower on a global scale, it can now challenge American military supremacy in the places that matter most to it: the waters around Taiwan and in the disputed South China Sea.

That means a growing section of the Pacific Ocean — where the United States has operated unchallenged since the naval battles of World War II — is once again contested territory, with Chinese warships and aircraft regularly bumping up against those of the United States and its allies.

So China is becoming militarized enough to challenge the U.S. Navy in the Pacific ... but it still lacks the ability to threaten Australia?

Nice Maginot Line you got there, pal!

The Washington Times likes to stir things up. I know most of the academics who study this stuff. None of the serious ones are worried in the slightest. China can threaten the US Navy in the Western Pacific. It cannot threaten Australia. It is not a
Maginot line, it is the air-sea gap that surrounds Australia. Look up the Dibb Report from 1986 to have it explained to you 4E. I doubt you'd even listen to what I have to say 'cause you've shown no willingness in the past to do so.

How fascinating for you... Meanwhile, as an academic attached to the School of Philosophical, Historical and International Studies at Monash, everything is open for discussion!

[brian ross]

China lacks (at the present moment and into the foreseeable future) the ability to threaten Australia.

The New York Times wrote this in 2018 under the headline of "With Ships and Missiles, China Is Ready to Challenge U.S. Navy in Pacific":
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/worl ... cific.html

A modernization program focused on naval and missile forces has shifted the balance of power in the Pacific in ways the United States and its allies are only beginning to digest.

While China lags in projecting firepower on a global scale, it can now challenge American military supremacy in the places that matter most to it: the waters around Taiwan and in the disputed South China Sea.

That means a growing section of the Pacific Ocean — where the United States has operated unchallenged since the naval battles of World War II — is once again contested territory, with Chinese warships and aircraft regularly bumping up against those of the United States and its allies.

So China is becoming militarized enough to challenge the U.S. Navy in the Pacific ... but it still lacks the ability to threaten Australia?

Nice Maginot Line you got there, pal!

The Washington Times likes to stir things up. I know most of the academics who study this stuff. None of the serious ones are worried in the slightest. China can threaten the US Navy in the Western Pacific. It cannot threaten Australia. It is not a
Maginot line, it is the air-sea gap that surrounds Australia. Look up the Dibb Report from 1986 to have it explained to you 4E. I doubt you'd even listen to what I have to say 'cause you've shown no willingness in the past to do so.

How fascinating for you... Meanwhile, as an academic attached to the School of Philosophical, Historical and International Studies at Monash, everything is open for discussion!

Discuss it all you like, Nom. However, you won't find me agreeing that the PRC represents much in the way of a threat to Australia for the various reasons I have set out. The PRC is basically a paper tiger everywhere except their own borders (land and maritime).

[The4thEstate]

Ive learnt over time...that its pretty pointless arguing the toss with an American...after all...they're always right.....

What kind of cop-out is that?

If you think I'm wrong, tell me why you think I'm wrong.

Would the USA be upset if say the Philippines converted the Spratly Islands into military bases...
or maybe Vietnam...of course not...no problems there....but China...that's a different story....
We have to stop China at all costs.....

Do you not believe that China is currently engaged in a long-term strategy to become the world's dominant power, both economically and militarily?

Do you think the world would be a better place if the world were dominated more by China than by the United States?

If not, why would you NOT want to stop China at all costs? Or ... maybe you think you'd enjoy life under the dominion of the Chinese communists.

Of course youre wrong....tell me about the thousands of military bases all over the world...

You're already wrong with your premise.

Here, this is what Politico wrote in 2015: "The United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant 'Little Americas' to small radar facilities."

That's a far cry from "thousands."

Why are they necessary.....tell about the necessity for the USA to be at war with some nation,
somewhere since the 1940s....

So what country is the U.S. at war with right now?

I don't mean what country is the U.S. competing with, both economically and militarily. I mean what country is the U.S. at war with -- y'know, bombs and guns and other things that go boom and bang?

No country, that's who.

What gives the USA the right to enforce the ruling of the Hague....is the USA the unofficial
enforcer of these rulings...but only when it suits them...

Come off it -- Trump doesn't give a crap about the Hague, the UN, the EU or any other collection of pompous international bureaucrats. That's why he gave the finger to the Paris climate accord.
.

I suppose you could always imposes sanctions on China....like every other country on the
planet that doesn't kowtow to the USA....

You're right, all the nations of the world should be nicer to China and less friendly to the U.S.

Because the Chinese are altruists and staunch defenders of human rights.

[The4thEstate]

China lacks (at the present moment and into the foreseeable future) the ability to threaten Australia.

The New York Times wrote this in 2018 under the headline of "With Ships and Missiles, China Is Ready to Challenge U.S. Navy in Pacific":
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/worl ... cific.html

A modernization program focused on naval and missile forces has shifted the balance of power in the Pacific in ways the United States and its allies are only beginning to digest.

While China lags in projecting firepower on a global scale, it can now challenge American military supremacy in the places that matter most to it: the waters around Taiwan and in the disputed South China Sea.

That means a growing section of the Pacific Ocean — where the United States has operated unchallenged since the naval battles of World War II — is once again contested territory, with Chinese warships and aircraft regularly bumping up against those of the United States and its allies.

So China is becoming militarized enough to challenge the U.S. Navy in the Pacific ... but it still lacks the ability to threaten Australia?

Nice Maginot Line you got there, pal!

The Washington Times likes to stir things up. I know most of the academics who study this stuff. None of the serious ones are worried in the slightest. China can threaten the US Navy in the Western Pacific. It cannot threaten Australia. It is not a
Maginot line, it is the air-sea gap that surrounds Australia. Look up the Dibb Report from 1986 to have it explained to you 4E. I doubt you'd even listen to what I have to say 'cause you've shown no willingness in the past to do so.

The WASHINGTON Times??

As stated in my post, and obvious from my link, that report originated in the NEW YORK Times!

Hmmm ... who was the guy who just told NorthofNorth to get his facts straight?

[brian ross]

China lacks (at the present moment and into the foreseeable future) the ability to threaten Australia.

The New York Times wrote this in 2018 under the headline of "With Ships and Missiles, China Is Ready to Challenge U.S. Navy in Pacific":
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/worl ... cific.html

A modernization program focused on naval and missile forces has shifted the balance of power in the Pacific in ways the United States and its allies are only beginning to digest.

While China lags in projecting firepower on a global scale, it can now challenge American military supremacy in the places that matter most to it: the waters around Taiwan and in the disputed South China Sea.

That means a growing section of the Pacific Ocean — where the United States has operated unchallenged since the naval battles of World War II — is once again contested territory, with Chinese warships and aircraft regularly bumping up against those of the United States and its allies.

So China is becoming militarized enough to challenge the U.S. Navy in the Pacific ... but it still lacks the ability to threaten Australia?

Nice Maginot Line you got there, pal!

The Washington Times likes to stir things up. I know most of the academics who study this stuff. None of the serious ones are worried in the slightest. China can threaten the US Navy in the Western Pacific. It cannot threaten Australia. It is not a
Maginot line, it is the air-sea gap that surrounds Australia. Look up the Dibb Report from 1986 to have it explained to you 4E. I doubt you'd even listen to what I have to say 'cause you've shown no willingness in the past to do so.

The WASHINGTON Times??

As stated in my post, and obvious from my link, that report originated in the NEW YORK Times!

Hmmm ... who was the guy who just told NorthofNorth to get his facts straight?

Yes, I noted my error after I had made the post but as there was no way to correct it, I let it slide. Anything substantial to say, 4E or are you just engaged in sniping?

[billy the kid]

Ive learnt over time...that its pretty pointless arguing the toss with an American...after all...they're always right.....

What kind of cop-out is that?

If you think I'm wrong, tell me why you think I'm wrong.

Would the USA be upset if say the Philippines converted the Spratly Islands into military bases...
or maybe Vietnam...of course not...no problems there....but China...that's a different story....
We have to stop China at all costs.....

Do you not believe that China is currently engaged in a long-term strategy to become the world's dominant power, both economically and militarily?

Do you think the world would be a better place if the world were dominated more by China than by the United States?

If not, why would you NOT want to stop China at all costs? Or ... maybe you think you'd enjoy life under the dominion of the Chinese communists.

Of course youre wrong....tell me about the thousands of military bases all over the world...

You're already wrong with your premise.

Here, this is what Politico wrote in 2015: "The United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant 'Little Americas' to small radar facilities."

That's a far cry from "thousands."

Why are they necessary.....tell about the necessity for the USA to be at war with some nation,
somewhere since the 1940s....

So what country is the U.S. at war with right now?

I don't mean what country is the U.S. competing with, both economically and militarily. I mean what country is the U.S. at war with -- y'know, bombs and guns and other things that go boom and bang?

No country, that's who.

What gives the USA the right to enforce the ruling of the Hague....is the USA the unofficial
enforcer of these rulings...but only when it suits them...

Come off it -- Trump doesn't give a crap about the Hague, the UN, the EU or any other collection of pompous international bureaucrats. That's why he gave the finger to the Paris climate accord.
.

I suppose you could always imposes sanctions on China....like every other country on the
planet that doesn't kowtow to the USA....

You're right, all the nations of the world should be nicer to China and less friendly to the U.S.

Because the Chinese are altruists and staunch defenders of human rights.

Tell me why 4E, the US has imposed sanctions on every country that doesn't kowtow to the US..
Tell me why sanctions apply to IRAN and INDIA..
Could it be that both these countries ditched the dollar....
Cant have that..can we...I know lets imposes some sanctions and show them that this wont be tolerated....
Reports show that in 2014 the US had imposed 6000 sanctions on countries all over the world...
In 2019...that number increased to 8000.
Why are there so many sanctions in place...
Why don't other countries impose sanctions....
Could it be so as the grubs in Washington can "protect" the world....or could it be
simply to "extend" the American empire....
An empire which at the moment is crumbling....
Goodness me...we cant join the ranks of other fallen empires like the British empire,
the Ottoman empire, the Roman empire......now can we...…
Don't forget to let me know why the US has to balkanize the ME
I wont hold my breath.....

[The4thEstate]

Yes, I noted my error after I had made the post but as there was no way to correct it, I let it slide. Anything substantial to say, 4E or are you just engaged in sniping?

Gosh, I agree: Sniping is a really, really bad thing!

NorthofNorth get your facts straight

[brian ross]

Nothing substantial to say then, 4E?

[The4thEstate]

Why are they necessary.....tell about the necessity for the USA to be at war with some nation,
somewhere since the 1940s....

So what country is the U.S. at war with right now?

I don't mean what country is the U.S. competing with, both economically and militarily. I mean what country is the U.S. at war with -- y'know, bombs and guns and other things that go boom and bang?

No country, that's who.

Tell me why 4E, the US has imposed sanctions on every country that doesn't kowtow to the US..

So what do you call kowtowing? Do you believe your own country is currently kowtowing to the U.S.?

Tell me why sanctions apply to IRAN and INDIA.

What sanctions on India are you referring to? Got a link maybe? .

Meanwhile, you're shedding tears over U.S. sanctions against Iran?

Seriously??

So let me get this straight: You don't like the way America treats China or Iran.

Who else do you feel sorry for -- Cuba? Venezuela? North Korea?

We all know that the world would be a better place if the most powerful nation in the world was China ... and the mullahs of Iran had the world's biggest arsenal of nuclear missiles. Only the cruelest American president would stand in the way of that wonderful future.

Reports show that in 2014 the US had imposed 6000 sanctions on countries all over the world...
In 2019...that number increased to 8000.
Why are there so many sanctions in place...
Why don't other countries impose sanctions....

Why don't you ask them? They frequently talk about it:

2019 -- China is seeking $2.4 billion in retaliatory sanctions against the United States for failing to comply with a World Trade Organization ruling in a case that highlights White House complaints about the global trade body.

2015 -- Canada has been awarded the right to seek $1 billion in trade sanctions against the United States by a World Trade Organization panel in a dispute over American meat-labelling rules.

So go for it! I'm sure it'll turn out just great for all concerned.

Could it be so as the grubs in Washington can "protect" the world....or could it be
simply to "extend" the American empire....
An empire which at the moment is crumbling....
Goodness me...we cant join the ranks of other fallen empires like the British empire, the Ottoman empire, the Roman empire......now can we...…

Hey, keep wishing for it. We all know the world would be a better place with China is in control of it.

Don't forget to let me know why the US has to balkanize the ME
I wont hold my breath.....

You still haven't told me what nation the U.S. is currently at war with -- after saying this: "Tell about the necessity for the USA to be at war with some nation, somewhere since the 1940s...."

So are you actually interested in debate, or is this daily scattershot anti-U.S. rant just your cheap version of therapy? Kind of like the lefties who screamed at the sky on the anniversary of Trump being elected president.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfgIawRDQM4