Anti Bikie Laws

[Outlaw Yogi]

As someone who's had three properties torched, my mag/alloy wheel repair business destroyed, over $60,000
worth of equipment and/or assets stolen, and been gaoled in maximum security at Parramatta while at war with
an outlaw club, I probably as much as anyone would or should like to see the demise of bikie gangs.
Being a political cynic I consider government the original extortion racket and have noticed that law and
order advocates are typically hypocrits seeking distractions and/or impunity concerning their own nefarious
activities.

In recent years various state govts from both sides of the political fence have sought to eliminate criminal
competition via anti consorting legislation and failed on constitutional grounds when challenged in the high
court. The latest strategy is giving state Attorney Generals singular authority to proscribe any organisation
of their choosing as criminal, and members subject to mandatory penalties.

As an amatuer historian I recognise this form of fascism as a dangerous threat to liberal democracy, but as a
political cynic I like this current trend due to its potential to backfire on those imposing it, and predict
it will do just that. I suspect these laws will be used to outlaw the Liberal and Labor political parties in
the very same manner Adolf hitler criminalised political opponents in Nazi germany.

Political sentiment is like a pendulum swinging from one side of the political divide to the other, and when
govenments sway too far to one side, the community backlash almost always ultimately swings back to an even
greater opposing extreme. One recent example is where Julia Gillard's handbag hit squad tried to overseer
scrutiny and criminalise critisim of their corruption, cronyism and incompetence. And for their efforts the
electorate crushed them unmercifully.

If you want to know the future, study the past. But being ahead of your time often induces an intellectual
loneliness, where the sole benefit is later being able to say "I told you so". So rather than battle
against consensus idiocy I remain smug in my contempt for authoritarian stupidity. My contemptuous sentiments
regarding political trends tend to be about fifteen years ahead of the electorate, almost regardless of the
topic/issue/subject/theme. This is countered/off-set by a general ignorance of contemporary culture. I very
rarely know who the current celebrities (actors, musicians, sports people) are.

My closet door may need an occy strap to prevent all the skelletons falling out, but legislative hypocrits
need concrete barriers because political opponents never stop digging for dirt. So in our march toward
totalitarianism in the name of community safety, I revel in in my contempt for politicians' sanctimonious
self righteousness.

These anti consorting laws will profoundly backfire on proponents because community sentiment against the major
political parties will continue to increase. So some time around 2022 to 2030 when the Veg Nazis achieve their
Queer revolution and outlaw anything unaffiliated with Vegan fundamentalism, it will only take one extremist
Federal Attorney General to arbitarily declare the Liberal and Labor parties criminal organisations, on the
grounds so many of their members and representatives indulge in illegal activities. And in Queensland in
particular, we may see retrospective and/or retroactive Anti Nepotism Laws added to the books as post modern
jack booters seize former Premier Newman's family members Campbell gotten gains.

[Rorschach]

IMO OUTLAWS are criminals and should be treated appropriately.

[Super Nova]

As someone who's had three properties torched, my mag/alloy wheel repair business destroyed, over $60,000
worth of equipment and/or assets stolen, and been gaoled in maximum security at Parramatta while at war with
an outlaw club, I probably as much as anyone would or should like to see the demise of bikie gangs.
Being a political cynic I consider government the original extortion racket and have noticed that law and
order advocates are typically hypocrits seeking distractions and/or impunity concerning their own nefarious
activities.

Man, no wonder you live in the bush away from society and the arseholes it contains.

It is a pity that a principal created by democratically elected representatives, while noble in intent is such a sham.

It is human nature to abuse power and to use it to protect one's self. What do we do about it. I thought the separation of government, the executive and the courts/policing.

The separation of powers, often imprecisely used interchangeably with the trias politica principle,[1] is a model for the governance of a state (or who controls the state). The model was first developed in Ancient Greece and Rome. Under this model, the state is divided into branches, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility so that the powers of one branch are not in conflict with the powers associated with the other branches. The normal division of branches is into a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary.

If this fails then all three legs must be corrupt at the same time.

[mellie]

It's topics and posts like this that make me feel like throwing my still busted computer in my parents outdoor spa. You raise some excellent points outawyogi and as soon as my computer is fixed, and stays fixed i will respond at length. Great post. It's hard posting from a crap android phone, lol.

[Outlaw Yogi]

IMO OUTLAWS are criminals and should be treated appropriately.

Ha ha, well plenty of so called law abiding citizens have been declared outlaws by officials of dubious character for a plethora of reasons, but usually financial ones .. for example Robin Hood a Saxon, was declared an outlaw by the Norman rulers of the day, Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham, for opposing unfair taxation.

And Criminality is subjective. For example in a communist country, your opinion is criminal and incurs penalties. Stalin would have put you in a Gulag.

Adolf Hitler outlawed all political parties except for the Nazi party and gaoled/jailed any political rival who dared voice a questioning opinion.

[Outlaw Yogi]

It's topics and posts like this that make me feel like throwing my still busted computer in my parents outdoor spa. You raise some excellent points outawyogi and as soon as my computer is fixed, and stays fixed i will respond at length. Great post. It's hard posting from a crap android phone, lol.

You post from a phone? ... Now that must be tedious.

[Rorschach]

IMO OUTLAWS are criminals and should be treated appropriately.

Ha ha, well plenty of so called law abiding citizens have been declared outlaws by officials of dubious character for a plethora of reasons, but usually financial ones .. for example Robin Hood a Saxon, was declared an outlaw by the Norman rulers of the day, Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham, for opposing unfair taxation.

And Criminality is subjective. For example in a communist country, your opinion is criminal and incurs penalties. Stalin would have put you in a Gulag.

Adolf Hitler outlawed all political parties except for the Nazi party and gaoled/jailed any political rival who dared voice a questioning opinion.

Oh puhlease....
Well actually we are talking about organised crime and criminals who like to rub it in society's face by calling themselves OUTLAW... and putting it on display... well the rest of us IN LAW people who abide by our societies laws etc don't give a rats about these childish morons who can't conform and have a need to feel and be different and bad.... they need to grow up and wake up.
They need to become IN LAW like most law abiding citizens or go to gaol... go directly to gaol and not stop at GO.

[Outlaw Yogi]

Oh puhlease....
Well actually we are talking about organised crime and criminals who like to rub it in society's face by calling themselves OUTLAW... and putting it on display... well the rest of us IN LAW people who abide by our societies laws etc don't give a rats about these childish morons who can't conform and have a need to feel and be different and bad.... they need to grow up and wake up.
They need to become IN LAW like most law abiding citizens or go to gaol... go directly to gaol and not stop at GO.

Well Rawsack, you may be fixated on delinquents, but that is not what we are talking about at all.
We are discussing an official's power to declare any organisation of their choosing as criminal, without
the standards generally applicable to such matters in a liberal democracy, such as proving their case to
the public via parliamentary debate.

You fail to realise, quite deliberately I suspect, that laws can be altered on a whim of an official, either
because he's a megalomaniac despot like Aussie for example bent on control of others, or because they are
pressured or even blackmailed by a lobby they are beholden to.

Like I stated, criminality is subjective. For example Long standing director of the FBI in USA, J Edgar Hoover,
was blackmailed by the Mafia because they had photos of him in drag and another of him in bed with his boyfriend.
So far decades US cops had to deal with Mafioso however they could, why J Edgar Hoover kept saying
"There is no organised crime in America".

Here in Oz, Abe Safron (rang Kings Cross for decades) had similar dirt on virtually every NSW Askin {Lib} government member,
and so was untouchable.

An historical example is when the Shogunate (5 families, later reduced to 4) deposed the emporer and set up their own
fuedal dictatorships. They outlawed weapons for everyone but themselves. Non compliance was designated as criminal
and the penalty was death. It took the Japanese population 400 years to take their country back, and those who died
doing so were classified as organised criminals.
Once the Shogunate was deposed, they became criminal assasins known as Ninja.

Y'see the tables can be turned, so while you may think you're law abiding, someone with an alternate mind set may
consider you as criminal for reasons beyond what you or I may think is sensible or realistic.
Realistically virtually everybody breaks some minor law regularly, if not every day. You'd have to be a saint not to.

Really the point I'm trying to get at, is, that the best bit/part of democracy is liberty. Once you start chipping away
at our liberties, we eventually wind up with totalitarianism and ultimately dictatorship. At which point we'd be
better off without being governed, and make our way in strongest of the fittest anarchy.
Wouldn't it be beter .. more practicle and sensible if we never had to do that?
And before you say "It'll never happen" .. I'll pre-empt you with very few Germans imagined what their country
would be like ten years later when Hitler first became chancellor. Germany was regarded as the most progressive
nation in Europe at the time. Then did a massive backflip and paid a very high price for a long time.

[Rorschach]

Gee that deliberate bad spelling sure does hurt

Well Rawsack, you may be fixated on delinquents, but that is not what we are talking about at all.

Wrong Yogi, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

You can crap on about big brother and other conspiranut crap all you like.
These OUTLAW BIKIE GANGS are just a bunch of criminals who flaunt it and say they are better than the rest of us and don't have to stay within the laws.
I"M A MEMBER OF AN OUTLAW BIKIE GANG..... give me a break.
They are immature people who need to feel different/special... well if they want to break the laws and commit crimes they can go to gaol.

Simples...

[Outlaw Yogi]

Gee that deliberate bad spelling sure does hurt

Well Rawsack, you may be fixated on delinquents, but that is not what we are talking about at all.

Wrong Yogi, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

You can crap on about big brother and other conspiranut crap all you like.
These OUTLAW BIKIE GANGS are just a bunch of criminals who flaunt it and say they are better than the rest of us and don't have to stay within the laws.
I"M A MEMBER OF AN OUTLAW BIKIE GANG..... give me a break.
They are immature people who need to feel different/special... well if they want to break the laws and commit crimes they can go to gaol.

Simples...

Oh so you'd rather these criminals go underground and be harder to detect.
No matey, you are fixated on the delinquency.
I gather that's why chose a comic book super hero as your avatar,
you'd like to be big and strong so you can fight all those big and nasty bad guys.
That's cool with me, but being an Ozzy, wouldn't 'The Phantom' be a more
appropriate choice to express YOU'RE immaturity?