Victorian Bushfires

[JW Frogen]

I gave a source, go and buy the bloody books and read!

The trouble with you Frogen is you give false comparisons, natural disaster aftermath v ongoing war. You also ignored the eyewitness evidence I quoted to the effect Rudd providing strong leadership in getting effective assistance!

Why not give an opinion on Uturnbull and his small package playing on a beach while Rudd was there on the field giving comfort.

Argue honestly.

If you read the book provide the page number, I will check it out. Or is it just in the long, distant recesses of your home brew soaked memory? (I mean you demand I show you proof of my military career despite me not knowing you from a serial killer who has his own Internet porn site.)

Still you avoid the main point, BEFORE THE ENTIRE NATION. When ADDRESSING THE ENTIRE NATION.

Not just some impromptu walk about.

As to false comparisons, this seems to be synonymous with any fact you find inconvenient Mr. Junky Monk.

[Jovial Monk]

Sorry, not going to re-read the books just for you. I read the books (Vol I-6 vol 1-3 in the later edition) and know it is in there.

Here is a quote from Mumble, I reckon it makes sense:

Some people used to reckon that Jim Cairns' finest hour, at least in terms of perceptions among the wider public, was during Cyclone Tracy in late 1974.
Gough Whitlam was overseas and Cairns as acting PM visited Darwin to survey the carnage. In such tragedies, being visibly upset yet remaining stoic and take-charge is the most natural response for any human being in a leadership position, and they nearly always look good as they comfort people, promise to do whatever is needed etc.

Whitlam wanting to stay (in Greece IIRC) just after cyclone Tracy really tarnished his image and started the slide to defeat.

http://www.mumble.com.au/ Jan 13

[JW Frogen]

Well if you can find a quote from some one we are not talking about why can't you find one from one of the most documented men in 20th century history?

Still I am not a pendant, maybe Churchill cried some times, the large point seems not to be your strong suite, crying during moments of public address, those pivotal moments when leaders talk to their entire nation.

[Jovial Monk]

Actually did a quick google, the book is not in the Gutenberg, so I cannot find you a link. Not everything is on the net! Page number would be for the first edition (12 volumes) which was later re-released as a 6 volume set--and this latter set is the one that is being sold now. I bought the six volumes way back, 60s or early 70s (have an interest in history, and wars tend to make history!)

If you really would like me too I will take a flick through what might be the relevant volume(s) but cannot do that in 5 minutes!

Do you agree Rudd as I stated acted bloody effectively? Tears do not (necessarily) denote weakness you know!

[JW Frogen]

Do you agree Rudd as I stated acted bloody effectively? Tears do not (necessarily) denote weakness you know!

Actually I do, if he follows through with quick and effective aid and rebuilding he can cry me a river.

Much better than Bush and Katrina, that is for sure.

But then Attilla the Hun was quicker to provide aid and rebuild than Bush and Katrina.

[Jovial Monk]

The bushfires in Victoria have some dire long term consequences. We can accept global warming is happening, and the consequence of this global warming is that the fires get bigger and hotter--these fires leave Ash Wednesday for dead in terms of size and ferocity, heard it reported today that in parts of the fire the temperature reached 1000°C!

The consequence of these very high temperatures is that trees are burned up completely, so are seeds that normally need a bushfire to to germinate. The trees I want to concentrate on are the ash trees around Melbourne's resevoirs. These trees are dead, just sticks of charcoal and I doubt any seeds are left alive as stated above. These forests will need to be replanted and much work done to stop erosion and the consequent silting up of the reservoirs.

So, new ash trees are planted, so what? So the young trees require tremendously more moisture than adult trees: the leaves of young trees transpire much more than those of adult trees. So the reservoirs will receive much less runoff, only 1/3 of the normal run off. Melbourne might get very thirsty!

Another consequence of global warming is that SE Australia is getting dryer, so Melbourne faces a double jeopardy to its water supply. Any possible source of succor?

Well, one other event caused by global warming is that NE Australia, Qld & NT are getting much more water dumped on them--apparently an area the size of SA is under flood ATM! Be nice to send that down the MD!!! The Coopers Creek is flooding and while still a distance away from the Darling isn't thousands of Kms from it. Diamantina, Thomson and Barcoo Rivers all flow into lake Eyre and are all in flood ATM, bit of a waste of lovely fresh water! We could build a pipeline or channel and send a lot of that water into the Darling!

It would have to be sensitively done so these rivers don't share the fate of the Snowy, and the two river systems need to be quarantined so fish stocks don't mingle, carp in these rivers would be a real problem, but it can be done.
Lefty told me "Yeah, that idea was floated in the 1940's and was called the Bradfield scheme I think. The bloke who came it also designed the Sydney Harbour bridge."

I think we need to dust it off! Nice big infrastructure project, the Feds, Qld, NWS, Vic & SA govts could put funding into this and it would stimulate the economy. The Greens of course would object but so what!

Even with that Kevy needs to grow a couple and get that water buyback happening NOW despite John Bloody Brumby! Illegal irrigators need to be kicked of tributaries of the MD and lots more lovely infrastructure spending can be done replacing open, unlined channels with pipelines and flood irrigation banned! The irrigators can damn well contribute to this! If Kevy can't grow a couple I bet Julia could!

Comments?

[Postul8]

water pipeline transfer schemes have existed as long as this nation has been colonised. what no-one ever considers are the ecological impacts of changing what nature creates. We're seeing the impacts of that right now with the collapse of a river system raped and pillaged over less than a century. That climate change is exacerbating the problem cannot be linked or blamed. It simply is! Climate change is part and parcel of the disruption and desecration of the only home humanity has, which humanity is wreaking upon it. In the short term, humanity ought do nothing by way of correction or amendment. Humanity needs to recognise that enough is enough and back off to allow the system to correct itself. That will take millenia, and if humanity can't survive the timespan, then that's too bad.

Governments need to 'buy back' so-called water licences and if that means an end to the citrus belt and higher prices in Australia for produce from overseas and farmers leaving the land or finding other means of production, then so be it! What we sow, we reap. If it be bitter then we accept that bitterness. It's too late to turn back now. We - as in the human species - have no choice but to ride the wave into the shore, where-ever that shore may be.

[Jubial Priest]

It was proposed in Western Australia and costed by Tenix but raised by the Liberal government.

As such, according to Monk these types of schemes are no longer valid.

[Jovial Monk]

That channel/pipeline was thousands of Kms long. no comparison.

[Jubial Priest]

Why do you insist on displaying yourself as the village idiot?

Logistically, it is hard enough to transport water resources. Politically it is almost impossible especially when you have ignoramuses like yourself thinking that they should 'get active' to make a difference while being led by the nose by some other idiot.

Australia is an idiot mardi-gra. You are now head of the parade.