Do those who send people off to war

[JW Frogen]

Great book by the way, it is simply in reality Yossarin's don't win wars.

If everyone on the Allied side had been a Yossarin Heller would never have lived in a world that would allow him to write Catch 22.

[Jovial Monk]

Bullshit! EVERY fucking soldier curses the brass!

Besides, Yossarian flew the missions, even the extra 20 missions the vainglorious general "volunteered" his men for several times. So, the book was against vainglorious dickheads (not even real soldiers & officers) volunteering others for no military result but just making the dickweed who made those people do huge numbers of missions look good.

There was also Milo Minderbinder in Catch 22, what did he represent?

Your statement, as usual, was just reflex with no thinking behind it.

[Jovial Monk]

And, BTW Patton was just a glory hound who did not contribute in any major way to winning WWII:

In the invasion of Sicily, asked to move the line of demarcation of US/UK force a bit to the west the clown, instead of heading to Messina went to Palerno and established himself in a palazzo there. Unfortunately this meant thousands of nazi soldiers could escape Sicily be the Messina Strait.

After the Normandy landings and while the battle of Normandy was furiously being fought the idiot set off for Paris, even though there was no way yet the Allies could feed Paris.

[JW Frogen]

Most soldiers curse everything. Including the brass, and they cheer the brass too. In my personal experience Admiral Borda, General Hanlon, a great leader can lead men into Hell and most of the men with guts will thank him for it. The worst thing that can ever happen to any army is retreat or a chant of despair.

History is repleate with examples perhaps hard for the civilian weaned only on fiction to understand.

Lee for example.

The only mission that matters is the last one, you have to stick it out until the war is won. Victory.

Let's talk reality, no fiction.

Grant was called a butcher by much of the press, both North and South, because his tactics took high casualties, but his tactics were the only tactics that could win that war, a war that would have went on and on or the South would have won and then fought wars between her bickerous states.

The logic of war is not one of maternal kindness, perhaps this is hard for the civilian to understand, it is of adaptation, perseverance and victory.

That is all war knows.

That is all a real warrior desires.

I know, it does not fit the PC agnst of movies and greeting cards, but there you have it.

[JW Frogen]

As to Patton, (God you are some humourless dolts) I do not agree with all his tactics but he always wanted the toughest fight, he was told where he would go in Sicily and had he been given the eastern front he would not have got caught out at the base of Mt Etna like the British.

Eisenhower was very gentle with British feelings.

Indeed had the fuel supplies been given to him as a priority he would have steamrolled into Germany much earlier than the Allies did, the horror of the Battle of the Bulge would have been avoided, indeed the Allied forces would have maybe even taken Berlin saving much of Germany the horror of Soviet occupation.

[JW Frogen]

See, Americans are not the Dutch, we do not tell the people of Bosnia come to our "safe havans" we will protect you and then when the poxy Serb para-military shows up throw up our hands and say sorry, we were just kidding, go die now.

Like Srebrinica.

[Jovial Monk]

Patten was good at saying "charge" but needed other people to tell him where to charge to and make sure he didn't run out of oil, food, bullets etc etc. A glory hound. Glory hounds get people killed for no reason because he wants glory.

Your stuff about Grant etc is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

[JW Frogen]

Patton did not need other people to tell him to charge, indeed the US brass was trying to tell him to stop so as not to humilate Monty.

Had the brass listened to where Patton wanted to charge WW2 would have ended a lot sooner than it did and lives would have been saved.

[JW Frogen]

Patton did love glory however.

No man who has never known glory will probably understand this.

[JW Frogen]

There was also Milo Minderbinder in Catch 22, what did he represent?

An MBA who was drafted before he could MBA.