Bail out

[Jesus]

"Won" means the tribalist Muslim fuckheads are dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Dad should have smited you lot of warring sand monkeys when he had the chance- you never change.Eventually you will be relegated to annals of history to take your rightful place next to the Neanderthals- Christians will follow soon after.

[Jason]

"Jesus is boiling in shit"

Rabbi Cohen

[Jesus]

You still owe me that money you tight fuck.

Go suck another bleeding baby dick and kick Habeeb in the nuts for me

[GABRIEL]

You owe me big time, goyim.

[GOD]

Fuck off Gabriel.

You always shat me, you sucking up little twat

[JW Frogen]

This was done during the savings and loan crises, it worked and even provided the US treasury with long-term profit.

I fail to see the connection.

Today major banks and national/global financial institutions are failing, rather than local mortgage brokers.

Please explain the connection.

The bond market holding the debt is interntional but the same economic fundementalis apply, if a major buyer (the US holds) a significant amount of these bonds it could stablise the market and then when US property prices rise again (as they will) make the bonds valuable again thus attracting buyers for them both domestic and internationally.

Indeed because it is an international market the profit for the US tax payer this time around may be even greater.

[helian]

Peace with honor is of course preferable to your option, self-indulgent despair, genocide and historical senility, pretend the chaos is peace; honor need not apply.

Even Obama has recognized how successful the surge has been, I know you want most Iraqis to suffer chaos so you can say your woe was for something (it is always about you on the far Left) but one would think any civilisised person would be happy the democracy most Iraqis risked their lives for is now on going to survive.

One would think.

But then the Left has it’s own concerns.

Iraqis are not part of that equation.

There is obvious political need for Obama not to crush the homeland's hope against hope. Obama wants to win a landmark election, not have his ambitions crucified by Iraq. Americans clearly need to believe Iraq was not a mistake after thousands of Americans have sacrificed their lives for a dubious cause. Remember Iraq was never about bringing democracy to the country. It was about the lie of weapons of mass destruction. The American people were duped into a war of attrition by a duplicitous President (who most likely did not have the intellect required to foresee the enormity of the outcome).

The mission in Iraq is doomed to failure not because the US didn't use enough firepower or didn't station enough military in the country. It will fail because it is not possible to bomb a love for democracy into the hearts of those who don't want it and will not defend it. Any belief that somehow the fragile state structure will survive is just deluded triumphalist idealism. Al-Sadr and his many supporters (whose aims are an Islamic state similar to Iran) have not been eliminated nor vanquished. When the gargantuan US funding of the war ceases (as sooner or later it must) and when US troops return home (and sooner or later they will), Iraq will recommence it's native political dialectic.

Unless the US intends to remain in Iraq for a very, very long time (and even after a lot of time the fault lines in Iraqi society will reopen) or unless after a US withdrawal there is a powerful secularist movement that has control of a strong military dedicated to preserving the secular and democratic state, the new mission (that of democracy for Iraq, proposed on the fly) will fail.

There's no such thing as 'almost won' except as a euphemism for 'lost'.

[JW Frogen]

Iraq was indeed about democracy, this was articulated time and time again before the war in speech after speech.. (The fear of WMD does not negate the hope of democracy. Wars are usually fought for strategic AND ideological reasons.)

You say Iraqis will not support or defend their democracy (there is an element of racism or neo-colonialism here, the little brown people can not do what we do, can not be free like we are) but they have, in three elections they have risked their lives to support their democracy, their army is larger than the coalition presence and controls much of the country now, men and women risking their lives for a democracy you, and more importantly Obama would have deserted long ago so you could chant the world peace while they die.

They have rejected your idea of peace, most Iraqis want what you have (if not value) peace with freedom.

Maybe because you have never had to lift a finger for your freedom you can not value it the way most Iraqis do?

[helian]

So onwards to give Saudi Arabia and North Korea a slice of freedom pie?

The American people didn’t send their sons and daughters to fight and die in Iraq to give Iraqis democracy, they sent them because they were convinced by their President that Iraq posed a threat to the region and the US because the regime possessed weapons of mass destruction. Once there and the WMD assertion was exposed for the lie that it was, the President concocted the democracy initiative to evoke in Americans their innate belief that they must impose it everywhere almost by divine will. This, they believe, absolves them of their sins whilst ‘doing god’s work’ when in the process of giving to others what they never asked for, they kill hundreds of thousands or millions of them.

I would bet that McCain doesn’t believe that the current objective in Iraq is sustainable without the presence of US troops over a prolonged period of time into the future. Of course he too wants to be elected as much as Obama and will defend his campaign from being crucified by Iraq as well.

And all this talk of the surge being the stroke of genius that turned the war around is like the Germans thinking the Battle of the Bulge signaled a sustainable change in fortune for German forces. A desperate US public eager to be assured that Iraq really isn’t another Vietnam (which it is) would believe just about anything to avoid admitting the nation has repeated a mistake that so polarized it barely 30 years before… i.e. that they had learned nothing from their own history and folly. But does anyone seriously believe that sending in more troops to give the insurgents a good spanking that they’ll all just lay down their arms forever and forget what they were fighting for? Isn’t it more likely that warlords are on the payroll until the US can figure out a way of backing out without looking like they’re running? What’s the plan when US troops leave or won’t that matter if the US can get out quick?

The threat to democracy in Iraq comes firstly from Iran which will always encourage its supporters in Iraq to reject American imposed democracy lest the US never leaves the country (its presence being in the form of military bases owned and operated by the US). Secondly there are the warrior zealots of the likes of Muqtada al-Sadr who intend to create an Islamic Republic in Iraq. These are thundering local political forces of which naïve democracy supporters are not aware, overlook or think can be bombed out of the equation. A deeply held sense of resentment towards an occupying force, Arab pride and religious instincts are unassailable by foreign armies in the region.

The US toppled the Saddam regime and in doing so brought death and destruction writ large to the Iraqi people. Their security is non existent, with the country being one of the most dangerous in the world to live in. The Iraqis are a long way from being convinced democracy is the answer to their prayers and will probably pass judgment on it in the way the Russians did when democracy came to that country, (bringing with it plummeting living standards and mega-corruption) when they adopted a dysphemistic term for it, namely shitocracy.

It takes far more than guns and soldiers to inspire a love for the secular freedom democracy can give to a people.

[JW Frogen]

"Woe is me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Woe is me!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope we, (being Western civilisation and democracy) are defeated. I need this for my own sense of self unworth."

Not really a noble cause when Iraqis have told you time and time again they want what you have (but can not support or lift one finger, even on a keyboard, now how weak is that? To defend, like they did.)

Woe is me. It is all about “me” on the Left.

Iraqis need not apply.

But they did, and we have just about won this war, and when we do (because even Obama recognisees this now, if you can not) you will move on to another self-indulgent despair.

Thank God you will never have any power to make your own nihilism real power.