Global Warming

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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:10 am

RS (tied of trying to remeber who to spell you handle, if you don't like this approviation, give me one you are happy with)
Given up worrying about it.

A growing body of scientific evidence indicates that since 1950, the world’s climate has been warming, primarily as a result of emissions from unfettered burning of fossil fuels and the razing of tropical forests.
An indicator is not proof.
Such activity adds to the atmosphere’s invisible blanket of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping “greenhouse” gases. Recent research has shown that methane, which flows from landfills, livestock and oil and gas facilities, is a close second to carbon dioxide as an impacton the atmosphere.
So should we have a methane tax as well perhaps?
In the last several years, the scientific case that the rising human influence on climate could become disruptive has become particularly robust.
"Could" is not a definitive statement. I "could" become a snowman.
Some fluctuations in the earth’s temperature are inevitable regardless of human activity — because of decades-long ocean cycles, for example. But centuries of rising temperatures and seas lie ahead if the release of emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation continues unabated, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group that shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with former Vice President Al Gore.
That was a travesty. Considering the conclusions of the IPCC have been proven incorrect and there have been blatant errors and untruths in their reports. Also Gore's propaganda film has been proven to be just that. They should take the award back.
In addition, a report released by the I.P.C.C. in November 2011 predicted that global warming will cause more dangerous and “unprecedented extreme weather” in the future.
Yet various experts and bureaus have cited that there have been no more. How do you explain the colder weather if the globe is warming? Surely winters should be getting milder and summers hotter.
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AiA in Atlanta
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Re: Global Warming

Post by AiA in Atlanta » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:46 am

Roach, want to make a quick $20?

Image

Astroturf Gone Wrong: Fake Protesters Offered $20 To Stand At Anti-Wind Energy Rally
Most Americans like clean energy. So when conservatives wage campaigns against clean energy initiatives, they have typically resorted to fronting astroturf groups and paying fake protesters to generate noise.

Needing 100 anti-wind protesters by next week and apparently unable to find them, a mysterious firm advertised a “quick and easy $20″ on Craigslist. According to the ad, the only thing the “volunteers” would need to do for their pay is “stand next to or behind the speakers and elected officials/celebrities” at a rally against a wind turbine project in the UK.

We do not know who is behind the ad, but there is at least one wealthy opponent of windmills in Scotland, since they would obstruct the view of his golf course.

There is nothing new about anti-clean energy and anti-EPA campaigns fronted by corporate interests. Last year, coal groups threw its cash at an Environmental Protection Agency hearing, paying astroturfers $50 to wear pro-coal T-shirts. Wind has faced a particularly uphill battle against corporate interests, with a leaked strategy memo showing conservative think tanks leading an astroturf strategy to take down clean energy, at the same time a lobby group linked to the Koch brothers mobilized to defeat wind credits in Congress.

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Super Nova
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Super Nova » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:28 am

RS,

I present an article that is 2 weeks old. Is there anything more recent that supports your claims.
Yet various experts and bureaus have cited that there have been no more. How do you explain the colder weather if the globe is warming? Surely winters should be getting milder and summers hotter.
Now you demonstrate that you do not understand climate theory. The increase in energy will create more extreme weather and this is predicted. So we will in some areas will seem to be more extreme conditions hot and cold due to the averge temperature (= energy) of the planet increasing.

IQ,

I have only found articles talking about this 1-,12 years of cooling but no real expert site with any real scientific credibily to support this claim. That is why I have dismissed this as valid. The polar ice is still shinking in the last 12 years so I cannot believe this claim. Extreme weather may give this impression in select points of measurement on the planet. It would help if you refer me to waht you consider to be a credible source for this claim.

I am open minded enough to learn what this really means in this debate.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:06 am

AiA maybe you should ask IQS... I pass.
I suppose they could jump on the gravy train and be alarmists and get government grants.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:12 am

Now you demonstrate that you do not understand climate theory. The increase in energy will create more extreme weather and this is predicted. So we will in some areas will seem to be more extreme conditions hot and cold due to the averge temperature (= energy) of the planet increasing.
I've done nothing of the sort. Don't lie about me and my position. You may not understand the alarmist arguments though. You may choose to ignore their arguments and what global warming actually is. They may call it climate change these days but it is still about global warming and how that will change the climate.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:28 am

Not your asked for summary Aussie, but something nonetheless.

“Climate Change” – something that has always occurred.

It is long past time that we stopped the hysteria and accepted the fact that “Climate Change” has always been with us, was here long before us, and will in all probability, be here long after us.

I remember when “climate change” was just “global warming” then “cooling”, then “dimming” then “warming” again, till it finally became any change in the weather. The problem seems to be, that when it comes to climate change, some look at the facts presented and see a coming global catastrophe, some see “business as usual” and yet others see a hoax. So in order to make some sense of the debate lets set some definitional ground rules. Like what is Weather and what is Climate?

Whether ‘tis weather or whether ‘tis climate…

Weather - The state of the atmosphere at a particular time and place.
weath·er (w r)
n.
1. The state of the atmosphere at a given time and place, with respect to variables such as temperature, moisture, wind velocity, and barometric pressure.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/weather" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Climate - A region's usual weather patterns.
cli·mate (kl m t)
n.
1. The meteorological conditions, including temperature, precipitation, and wind, that characteristically prevail in a particular region.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/climate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Weather and Climate, have existed long before man, and our planet has been through naturally occurring cyclic extremes and continuous “change” many times in the past. These naturally occurring cyclic changes are not just going to stop because Man is now on the scene. The climate extremists on both sides of the “man-made” argument do themselves no favour, inciting hysteria or completely denying our impact on the planet. Of course we have an impact on the planet, but we don’t control the weather and ipso facto… we don’t control the climate.

Weather and Climate are created by a much more vast and complex system of variables than just “man-made” CO2 emissions.

Even if the “Climate Believers” are right… wait… that isn’t an accurate description of those that believe Al Gore and believe in “Man-made Global Warming”. Why not you ask? Well, because the majority of the so-called “Deniers” or “Skeptics” also believe that climate changes. That is right, they do. The argument to them is about Man’s contribution and the results of that contribution. So let’s say, even if the “Climate Alarmists” are right… and the catastrophic “Global Warming” at the heart of their climate beliefs was caused by man alone. (Which it isn’t), Carbon Dioxide would still be released into the atmosphere as it has always been, its amount will increase and decrease naturally.

If we in Australia stopped all our CO2 emissions right now, from this very second onwards, we would have virtually no impact on the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and the global average temperature. Even though some would like us to believe that it would.

In fact if every country ended their emitting it would take hundreds of years before we would notice any impact and the so called global average temperatures would vary, hardly a degree. *A FACT recently backed up by the government’s own Climate Commissioner – Tim Flannery.

According to the average of many future climate change predictions, the global temperature rise will be 3 degrees Celsius by 2100. Yet, in comparison, just the other week in Australia, we had a temperature variation of 1-10 degrees Celcius per day.

But what about the; heatwave, drought, flooding, and cyclone you ask. After all the “Alarmists” have predicted all sorts of disasters due to… “climate change”. The “Alarmist” Politicians tell us, the “Alarmist” Media bombard us, and the “Alarmist” Greens scream it at us. Every chance they get. Every weather event and hot day is due to our CO2 emissions. Hell, even the record cold, snows and blizzards are due to “man-made global warmi…” oops, “climate change”.

Do you ever wonder why, when man-made CO2 emissions are continually increasing, that temperatures all over the Earth, do not continue to increase proportionally? Could it be that it “climate change” and “global warming” just isn’t that simple after all? Could it be that slapping on a carbon tax also won’t be the simple solution?

As for Australia, it has always been a land of extremes weather-wise. We even have it enshrined in our popular culture. The Poet, Dorothea Mackellar , born in 1885 (before our man-made CO2 problem), once wrote in her poem, “My Country”…

“I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.”

Ah yes, “droughts and flooding rains.” It would seem then that even Literary Artists have noticed the weather patterns and climatic extremes of our country. So what then, is the point of blaming every weather event, on ourselves and what we do? Whether you believe in “man-made Climate Change” or not, there is no immediate solution to climate “problems” and extreme weather events. There probably never will be. Man has never controlled the weather or climate, on Earth.

Yet the “Alarmists” tell us the solution is simple. A tax on carbon will fix it. Not in your or my lifetime it won’t. *A FACT recently backed up by the government’s own Climate Commissioner – Tim Flannery.

All that a tax or an economic “solution” will do, is make energy and everything else that uses it, that much more expensive for us. It is already doing that and we haven’t got a Carbon Tax yet. Our Politicians don’t believe in “the Carrot or the Stick” they just believe in the stick. Force people to use less by making it more expensive to use and depleting their bank accounts. (If they have anything in them of course.) Well let me tell you, this stick will be the straw that breaks may Australians backs.

Let’s look at some predictions and prognostications for Australia, by the so-called “Climate Alarmists.”

Tim Flannery, warns us that we face “global warming” doom. He was recently made Australian of the Year, so esteemed is he in certain political circles.

Tim said: “The water problem is so severe for Adelaide that it may run out of water by early 2009.”

Fact; In just weeks from 2009, Adelaide’s reservoirs were 75% full.

Tim predicted: Sydney’s dams could be dry in just two years.

Fact; 3 years later its dams were over 60% full, and it had recently had its wettest year since 1951.

Tim said: (Brisbane’s) “water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months”.

Fact; 18 months later, Brisbane’s dams were over 45% full after its wettest spring in 27 years. Recently the Wivenhoe Dam (Brisbane’s flood mitigation dam) had to release water as it was over 100% capacity.

Tim said: “there is a fair chance Perth will be the 21st century’s first ghost metropolis”.

Fact; Perth has low water restrictions, due to its desalination plant and dams that are 40% full after the city’s recent wettest November in 17 years.
Most recently the Government’s Climate Commissioner, Tim Flannery, has said; “If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow, the average temperature of the planet's not going to drop for several hundred years, perhaps over 1000 years.” Surely no one doubts that within 1000 years that there will be many changes in our technology and the ways we use and produce energy.

Professor Ove Hoegh-Guldberg, of Queensland University, is Australia’s most quoted reef expert.

In 1999, he warned that the Great Barrier Reef was under pressure from global warming, and much of it had turned white.

In 2006, he warned high temperatures meant “between 30 and 40 per cent of coral on Queensland’s great Barrier Reef could die within a month”.

In 2007, he warned that temperature changes of the kind caused by global warming were bleaching the reef.

Fact; the Global Coral Reef Monitoring Network stated there had been no big damage to the reef caused by climate change in the four years since its last report.

A bad ski season (amongst good ones) several years ago, had “The Age” blaming it on “global warming.” The CSIRO, Australia’s top scientific body claimed resorts such as Mt Hotham and Mt Buller, could lose up to 25% of their seasonal snow cover by 2020.

Fact; Since then we have had another boom season, with Mt Hotham and Mt Buller covered in snow a full five weeks before the start.

Recently The Australian Greens have had much to say…

Senator Bob Brown said of the recent Qld floods: ''There's very little doubt that the burning of fossil fuels is responsible for the hottest oceans we've ever seen off Australia, which in turn the scientists are saying very clearly is responsible for the quite extraordinary and harrowing floods that we've seen''

Senator Christine Milne recently said of Cyclone Yasi: "This is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy of climate change”

Green Party politicians continually make hysterical statements like this, even though climate scientists have warned politicians time and time again that; individual extreme weather occurrences cannot be blamed on “climate change.”

Many younger Australians of course aren’t aware that we live in a country prone to “droughts and flooding rains.” But a quick look back into our past shows the pattern repeating itself time and time again. These weather events are not new to Australia.

Oh and of course we all know what Kevin Rudd said about “climate change.” It was, "the greatest moral, economic and environmental challenge of our generation". Of course it was Kevin. I gather he’s also blaming “climate change” for his recently infected toe.

Our planet is not static, it cannot and will not always stay the same. No matter how much, “Environmentalists” and “Conservationists” want it too. That… is unnatural. We live in a dynamic world where the one constant is change itself. The Earth and its weather and climate patterns over its long history, attest most clearly to this.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:36 am

Climate stupidity

Love this bit;
“Masters said that the northeastern United States has been coated in heavy snowfall from major Category Three storms or larger three times in each of the past two winters, storms that are unparalleled since the winter of 1960-61.”

So what levels of carbon dioxide poison were in the air in 1960-61 to cause that?
The stupidity is endless.
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IQS.RLOW
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Re: Global Warming

Post by IQS.RLOW » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:55 am

I have only found articles talking about this 1-,12 years of cooling but no real expert site with any real scientific credibily to support this claim. That is why I have dismissed this as valid. The polar ice is still shinking in the last 12 years so I cannot believe this claim
I didn't realize you are religious SN. You have based your conclusion on faith and your thinking has been addled by preachers of that faith, so you didn't really look very hard

Would The Met Office meet your criteria of 'real scientific credibility'?
The Met Office now confirms on its climate blog that no significant warming has occurred


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... g-not.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:43 am

Yes, figured that was too obvious to mention. SN obviously isn't listening or open minded.
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Rorschach
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Re: Global Warming

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:54 pm

http://www.c3headlines.com/2012/03/extr ... rming.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Conclusion: The green warmists that dominate the ranks of leftists / progressives / liberals / Democrats almost completely rely on promulgating urban myths regarding climate change, global warming and extreme weather events. Fortunately for the rest of the world, the preponderance of empirical evidence and peer reviewed research does not support the myths and legends.
http://www.c3headlines.com/peer-reviewed-studies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This Turkish study confirms what previous UHI effect studies have found: rural areas are not experiencing an increase in temperatures due to greenhouse gases. Because the dataset used to calculate global temperatures is dominated by urban and airport locations, overstating global warming has been the result. The UHI effect has never been adequately removed so as to provide an accurate picture of CO2-induced global warming. Simply put, to accurately determine actual global warming from greenhouse gases, only rural climate stations, based on the state-of-the-art USCRN technology and standards, should be used for the land surface global temperature dataset.
The IPCC climate models can't simulate the reality of observed climate conditions. Climate models and computer simulations are incapable of producing credible climate predictions and forecasts due to the lack of understanding that scientists have about all the interactions within the climate system.
The long predicted extreme climate change from CO2 levels and global warming has not happened. There has not been an increase/decrease of East Coast severe winter storms that would indicate a noteworthy change in existing natural climate variation.
The lack of predictive skill of the IPCC's climate models is likely due to their being dominated by atmospheric CO2 level inputs (CO2-centric). The actual empirical evidence indicates that changing CO2 levels are more a result of global temperature changes than changes in human CO2 emissions.
Human CO2 emissions, and the supposed global warming, are not causing an increase in heavy precipitation events across the U.S. as predicted. The IPCC's climate models again fail a crucial test when their output is compared to actual weather reality.
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