The Greens - the no credibility party?

[skippy]

Children under 18 can already get FREE dental.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/custome ... s-schedule

That's good but I believe basic dental care should be available to all Australians. I'm not saying cosmetic or even root canal should be included. A lot of working families can not afford to have basic dental work done.

[Super Nova]

Children under 18 can already get FREE dental.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/custome ... s-schedule

That's good but I believe basic dental care should be available to all Australians. I'm not saying cosmetic or even root canal should be included. A lot of working families can not afford to have basic dental work done.

Skip,

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

I don't buy it. We all have choices to make with regard to how we spend our money.

I have no issue with children getting it. they are not responsible for the situation their parents find themselves in and in the long term good teeth reduce the burden on the welfare state if it comes to pass that it is free for all.

[skippy]

Children under 18 can already get FREE dental.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/custome ... s-schedule

That's good but I believe basic dental care should be available to all Australians. I'm not saying cosmetic or even root canal should be included. A lot of working families can not afford to have basic dental work done.

Skip,

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

I don't buy it. We all have choices to make with regard to how we spend our money.

I have no issue with children getting it. they are not responsible for the situation their parents find themselves in and in the long term good teeth reduce the burden on the welfare state if it comes to pass that it is free for all.

Many families are battling to pay rent and put food on the table let alone pay for luxuries like dental work. UNDER employment is rife in this country . There are many families that slip through the cracks of support too and contrary to popular myth do not qualify for things like health care cards. Pretty sure it cuts out at around the thirty grand mark. A lot of people are paying that much for a mortgage or rent alone.

[mantra]

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

At $90 a checkup and $200 for even the most minor of fillings - not too many people can afford basic dental treatment.

Some people have never had to struggle financially. They have no idea how the other half lives. Dentists are incredibly expensive and the average person can't afford to maintain their own teeth and struggle to maintain their children's teeth, especially in those areas where there is no fluoride.

Dental treatment is not free for children. They can access up to $1000 worth of treatment. When my kids were little there was a school dentist in most areas where your children could have all the care they needed until they reached high school. That went under the Howard government and instead he offered a scheme to those who could access $4000 worth of treatment every 2 years if they knew the right doctor to sign off on it for them. I knew wealthy people who were having every tooth capped and had accessed it 3 times - total $12,000, while the average working Jo Blow had no access to even basic treatment. It was rorted by the greedy as most of the Coalition schemes are.

[Super Nova]

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

At $90 a checkup and $200 for even the most minor of fillings - not too many people can afford basic dental treatment.

That's the cost. I mean seriously, if you look after your teeth you only need 1/2 a dozen of these in oytur life. Let's make it a dozen.

So in your life you need to spend $200x12 - $2,800 a life time. for fillings. (minor)
A dental check-up $90 per year.

Most people spend more than that on beer and/or fags a month.

Some people have never had to struggle financially. They have no idea how the other half lives.

Well that's not me. I know what it is like to struggle. My family struggled but found ways. We had to give up things to pay for the essentials.

How many times did you get a cloths, hanky and underpants as your main xmas present.

When I went out in the world my rent was 50% of my salary. I had to not do things to support the essentials.

I learned how hard it is that's why I chose to work hard with the hope I would earn more so I could have the luxury of choosing what I spend my money on always paying my way for everything. What pisses me off is I missed out on every single hand-out because I just earned just enough to miss the cut off point.

Now I pay for those that either did not try hard enough because they know no fear of what would happen if they don't. There is a safety net that guarantees them a good life without major struggle.

[ Dentists are incredibly expensive and the average person can't afford to maintain their own teeth and struggle to maintain their children's teeth, especially in those areas where there is no fluoride.

So the average person cannot afford to maintain their teeth..... Don't buy it. They choose other things so it becomes a very expensive repair job. The state should not foot the bill for poor dental hygiene or maintenance. This is nonsense.

[Dental treatment is not free for children. They can access up to $1000 worth of treatment. When my kids were little there was a school dentist in most areas where your children could have all the care they needed until they reached high school. That went under the Howard government and instead he offered a scheme to those who could access $4000 worth of treatment every 2 years if they knew the right doctor to sign off on it for them. I knew wealthy people who were having every tooth capped and had accessed it 3 times - total $12,000, while the average working Jo Blow had no access to even basic treatment. It was rorted by the greedy as most of the Coalition schemes are.

The system should not allow wealthy people to claim. That is poor implementation.

if the rules allow it we cannot complain about those a little smarter or better connected exploiting it.

[Super Nova]

Many families are battling to pay rent and put food on the table let alone pay for luxuries like dental work. UNDER employment is rife in this country . There are many families that slip through the cracks of support too and contrary to popular myth do not qualify for things like health care cards. Pretty sure it cuts out at around the thirty grand mark. A lot of people are paying that much for a mortgage or rent alone.

Many families maybe struggling maybe true.

Why are they struggling. What choices did they make that has led them to this point.

I wonder what their credit card bills look like.

Having a mortgage is a good thing however I should not fund their mortgage indirectly because they struggle to gain capital and are currently cash poor.

Don't buy it.

Sell your house, down size... start accumulating when things improve for you.

[Rorschach]

Governments are not business they don't need to make profits, contrary to conservative propaganda. Stop confusing Conservatism with capitalism, they aint the same thing. BTW as with individuals and families, groups, organisations and businesses... governments at all levels need to be fiscally/financially aware and live within their means.
Governments should be there to manage peoples taxes by providing people's needs. Believe it or not teeth are a health issue, not that you'd know it listening to conservatives. Oh puhlease I'm a Conservative when have you heard dribble about teeth from me.You brought it up before I ever did or would have... does that make you a conservative? If you want to blame someone for being fiscally responsible or overly so... blame the bean counters all governments have them.

So you agree with me governments don't need to make profit, goodo.
As for dental, it was in your original posts, didn't you read it? You even made a comment about it in red

I don't get your last comment Skippy... personally I'd be happy for dental to be part of medicare... but I also don't think we can afford it. Been to the dentist in the last 20 years?
Oh and Skip.... savings are what individuals and families call profits... they use them in times of emergencies or so they can eventually afford something... same for governments. Forgotten the surplus/profit/savings Rudd spent at the so-called GFC already? Good thing we had a largely Conservative government in before them eh.

[Rorschach]

That's good but I believe basic dental care should be available to all Australians. I'm not saying cosmetic or even root canal should be included. A lot of working families can not afford to have basic dental work done.

Skip,

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

I don't buy it. We all have choices to make with regard to how we spend our money.

I have no issue with children getting it. they are not responsible for the situation their parents find themselves in and in the long term good teeth reduce the burden on the welfare state if it comes to pass that it is free for all.

Many families are battling to pay rent and put food on the table let alone pay for luxuries like dental work. UNDER employment is rife in this country . There are many families that slip through the cracks of support too and contrary to popular myth do not qualify for things like health care cards. Pretty sure it cuts out at around the thirty grand mark. A lot of people are paying that much for a mortgage or rent alone.

Skippy is right SN... dental work is very expensive here. Just a check up is expensive let alone cleaning or a filling, an extraction or worse. For most people it is very low on the discretionary spending list and usually just used in painful emergencies.

[Rorschach]

Why can't "A lot of working families" not be able to afford basic dental?

At $90 a checkup and $200 for even the most minor of fillings - not too many people can afford basic dental treatment.

That's the cost. I mean seriously, if you look after your teeth you only need 1/2 a dozen of these in oytur life. Let's make it a dozen.

So in your life you need to spend $200x12 - $2,800 a life time. for fillings. (minor)
A dental check-up $90 per year.

Most people spend more than that on beer and/or fags a month.

Some people have never had to struggle financially. They have no idea how the other half lives.

Well that's not me. I know what it is like to struggle. My family struggled but found ways. We had to give up things to pay for the essentials.

How many times did you get a cloths, hanky and underpants as your main xmas present.

When I went out in the world my rent was 50% of my salary. I had to not do things to support the essentials.

I learned how hard it is that's why I chose to work hard with the hope I would earn more so I could have the luxury of choosing what I spend my money on always paying my way for everything. What pisses me off is I missed out on every single hand-out because I just earned just enough to miss the cut off point.

Now I pay for those that either did not try hard enough because they know no fear of what would happen if they don't. There is a safety net that guarantees them a good life without major struggle.

[ Dentists are incredibly expensive and the average person can't afford to maintain their own teeth and struggle to maintain their children's teeth, especially in those areas where there is no fluoride.

So the average person cannot afford to maintain their teeth..... Don't buy it. They choose other things so it becomes a very expensive repair job. The state should not foot the bill for poor dental hygiene or maintenance. This is nonsense.

[Dental treatment is not free for children. They can access up to $1000 worth of treatment. When my kids were little there was a school dentist in most areas where your children could have all the care they needed until they reached high school. That went under the Howard government and instead he offered a scheme to those who could access $4000 worth of treatment every 2 years if they knew the right doctor to sign off on it for them. I knew wealthy people who were having every tooth capped and had accessed it 3 times - total $12,000, while the average working Jo Blow had no access to even basic treatment. It was rorted by the greedy as most of the Coalition schemes are.

The system should not allow wealthy people to claim. That is poor implementation.

if the rules allow it we cannot complain about those a little smarter or better connected exploiting it.

You may not BUY IT... but it is a reality... many people have no money left over at the end of the week. Some manage to scrape a small amount of savings but that can be spent on any number of things... sport for your children, private schooling, tuition, a school excursion, other health costs, small emergencies, petrol, car maintenance, insurance... the list goes on and on and on.

Oh and SN, if they are using their credit card to get by on... guess what? That means their wages are not keeping them afloat... cost of living in Sydney is pretty horrendous and most people do not earn the average wage.

[Super Nova]

You may not BUY IT... but it is a reality... many people have no money left over at the end of the week. Some manage to scrape a small amount of savings but that can be spent on any number of things... sport for your children, private schooling, tuition, a school excursion, other health costs, small emergencies, petrol, car maintenance, insurance... the list goes on and on and on.

Oh and SN, if they are using their credit card to get by on... guess what? That means their wages are not keeping them afloat... cost of living in Sydney is pretty horrendous and most people do not earn the average wage.

I hear you but what is "many people"?

is it 5%, 10% or 50%?

"Sydney is pretty horrendous and most people do not earn the average wage"

By definition I would expect 50% to be just on or below the average wage if you consider what average is. High earners would push the average higher.

I accept living in today's society has costs.

My point is... whatever happened to living within your means.

My sister lives off well below the average wage and manages to pay a small mortgage but has to do without a lot of the nice things she would like however she only uses a credit card for emergencies only and has a nice TV and video games plus 2 kids. I admit she doesn't live in Sydney.

I wouldn't like her lifestyle but she chose to stay in the bush and live a meagre existence. She lives more like my parents and grandparents did. If I have no cash free, I don't spend. I save a little for a rainy day. I go without. She pays for all the things you raise. At times it is hard but she manages and I can tell you has a lifestyle that most of the world's population would envy even though she is dirt poor by aussie standards.

I used to be sympathetic to the type of concerns you raise but the more I see of the world and the more I see in the west the more I believe the welfare state needs to be contained and people need to start taking responsibility for the decisions they have made and the situation they find themselves in.

if you plan a family, buy a house with mortgage you need to plan. If you cannot afford the medical or dental treatment you should have thought about that before you bought your house or even had the kids.

Sounds tough but that is the reality. many don't want to take responsibility and expect things to be a right that government/society must pay for.

What about those that work hard, save, make sacrifices when they are young, limit the number of children they have based on affordability. All they get is more bloody taxes to pay for those that failed to plan and have made choices without being able to sustain them.

The only people that should be helped are those truly in need due to no fault of their own. Mentally ill, handicapped, disabled or those with real hard luck stories.