Bad Politics

Australian Federal, State and Local Politics
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The Artist formerly known as Sappho

Re: Bad Politics

Post by The Artist formerly known as Sappho » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:10 pm

Aussie wrote:

Strawman.
No it's not. I am asking your opinion on exactly the same scenario with only the political parties reversed. Then I asking why there is an inherent inconsistency in your argument as it pertains to the Fourth Estate.
My point is simple. This thing to be announced on Sunday will be the subject of community and parliamentary debate for a long period. Allowing Abbott a few days of headline grabbing negativity before the Winter recess would have been politically naive and stupidity.
And my point is also simple. The bill is ready to be read in the lower house, but is being delayed in preference for using the winter break and the Forth Estate to sell this bill rather than debate this bill. It's not real politics, it's pop politics. Introducing the bill now would allow all the peoples representatives to express considered opinions when addressing the Forth Estate. You do want for considered opinions don't you, no matter which brand of politics it is? As it stand, we shall only hear the sanitized version for the next five weeks to which the Liberal party will respond with scare tactics. It is easier to scare the people than it is to sell the people, did you know? So, not such a great move by Gillard after all.

Jovial Monk

Re: Bad Politics

Post by Jovial Monk » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:19 pm

Bill is ready to be read in the lower house. Really? The committee has only just reached agreement—I think the Parliamentary draughtspeople will be busy for a while yet.

Aussie

Re: Bad Politics

Post by Aussie » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:20 pm

I cannot believe you are so ignorant of how these things work. On Sunday, Gillard will announce the terms of an ETS policy which has been nutted out between the ALP, the Greens and the Independents. You will have heard Windsor say in the Media yesterday that he will support the policy if the legislation accurately reflects the terms of the agreement.

While I am sure some public servants have been beavering away at a draft Bill, they will not finalise it until the Government give them the essential elements after Sunday.

Then, there will be the Winter recess, during which there will be community debate. It is entirely possible that may have an effect on the announced policy, and there may be some tweaking.

That done, the public servants do their thing, and then the Bill is introduced into Parliament.

Then the Opposition have their opportunity to debate a Bill, something of real legal substance. If the Bill passes through both Houses, on Assent by the GG, it becomes an Act/Law.

Jovial Monk

Re: Bad Politics

Post by Jovial Monk » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:23 pm

Oppn could know what was in the proposed Bill, even had some influence on it, if they had joined the committee as they had been invited to.

The Artist formerly known as Sappho

Re: Bad Politics

Post by The Artist formerly known as Sappho » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:47 pm

Aussie wrote:I cannot believe you are so ignorant of how these things work.
Yes you are right. I didn't mean to make mention of the bill but rather the announcement which should be brought forward so that parliament can scrutinize the issue. All else remains the same, whilst Gillard seeks to woo the crowds first instead of preparing the bill for lower house debate, Abbott can use scare tactics to incite economic fear in the people and their purse strings.

This dribs and drabs approach is perfect for Abbott to scare the people and bad for good legislation.

Let me give you one little scare tactic yet to be used, so far as I am aware, but that will be used to its fullest effect as the dribs and drabs come out over the next few weeks.

The carbon tax is to be imposed upon the energy suppliers who will then pass it on to their residential and business customers, so it is not just the cost of utilities that will be impacted but all goods and services produced in Australia. Those costs will then be passed onto the customer so that the overall cost of living will rise by (insert up to scary percentage points here). Australian families cannot afford a further increase in the cost of living and the Gillard govt has no intention of compensating these consumer cost increases.

I wonder if a cabon excise will be added to imported products? If not, Abbott has yet another means at his disposal to scare the public as he spruiks the stagnating second speed economy becoming the contracting second speed economy.

In reality however, whilst this historic change has short term effects such as economic contraction and increased inflation, long term it creates a new clean energy and greener consumer market.

Aussie

Re: Bad Politics

Post by Aussie » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:55 pm

In reality however, whilst this historic change has short term effects such as economic contraction and increased inflation, long term it creates a new clean energy and greener consumer market.
Well, let's see what merges on Sunday, and we can have at it thereafter, as will Mr Negativity Abbott.

:beer

The Artist formerly known as Sappho

Re: Bad Politics

Post by The Artist formerly known as Sappho » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:04 pm

Aussie wrote:
In reality however, whilst this historic change has short term effects such as economic contraction and increased inflation, long term it creates a new clean energy and greener consumer market.
Well, let's see what merges on Sunday, and we can have at it thereafter, as will Mr Negativity Abbott.

:beer
You are missing the point Aussie. This thread is not about the the C tax, it is about bad politics. It is non partisan in that regard. It is casting an eye over the methods used by what ever party. Can you not be non partisan? Must you defend Labor at all costs which is irrational to say the least?

Jovial Monk

Re: Bad Politics

Post by Jovial Monk » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:12 pm

At least the announcement was made while Parliament was sitting, Howard would announce stuff out of the blue in the middle of a long recess.

I also don’t think Gillard had a free hand, apparently Milne had blabbed something.

The Artist formerly known as Sappho

Re: Bad Politics

Post by The Artist formerly known as Sappho » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:16 pm

Jovial Monk wrote:At least the announcement was made while Parliament was sitting, Howard would announce stuff out of the blue in the middle of a long recess.


Yes I agree, but that was yesterdays politics. Now we have today's politics. And today's politics seems to be just as bad as yesterdays, except that yours and Aussies attitude to similar poor form is more openly positive. Why is that? Is not bad form, bad form irrespective of the political party entailed in the bad form?

The Artist formerly known as Sappho

Re: Bad Politics

Post by The Artist formerly known as Sappho » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:21 pm

Do you think that this is bad form for example? Is it a waste of taxpayer money? Does it suggest that the government is administrating a govt. or selling in a business? Should the govt. be viewed as a business from a labor perspective and so utilize the methodology of business, particularly given that business methodology is not democratic and is psychologically manipulative?

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