Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

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Lefteee

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Lefteee » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:15 am

Hehehe, poor old Baldrick :)

Here - for what it's worth I guess - is Access Economics current prediction. That interest rates will, within two years - wait for it, wait for it - return to normal! It predicts that interest rates will rise to 5%. Gasp! Grab your kids and run! Interest rates are gonna be......erm......gonna be.......um, a fuck of a lot lower than before the GFC hit 12 months ago. A full 2.5% lower in fact. Gosh, and after all that government borrowing I would have thought that if they were at 7.5% before the stimulus, then surely they must reach at least double that after it - probably triple. Maybe they knock Howards record off it's perch.

Hey, it's all just forecasting. Lets not get too hung up on it.

Lefteee

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Lefteee » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 am

Fuck this computer.

It's in today's opposition orifice (The Australian) anyway - assuming you're interested.


Lefteee

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Lefteee » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:50 pm

Inflation fears drove rate rise, says RBA:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/bu ... 43,00.html

Not quite the same thing as the theory that government borrowing hoovers up loanable funds, causing a shortage and a price increase - a theory meant to describe government spending and banking in the heady days of gold standard economies.

Which by the way, ended in 1971.

Jovial Monk

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Jovial Monk » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:27 am

The thing that worries me is a double dip recession. The US is still a very sick economy but is still the biggest economy. We, and China, are doing well because we both stimulated our respective economies. I did note at he time China was planning the stimulus as massive capital works and that a cash stimulus should precede that because there is a years-long lag before sod is actually turned on such big projects. The Chinese govt a few months later did make such a cash stimulus.

Now, in the absence of a US recovery (it did spend the 19030s in Depression) it may happen that our and China's economies will decline again needing more stimulus. We could easily borrow another $1-200Bn tho the Opposition and Dickhead Fielding might not let that stimulus Bill through the Senate.

Then what?

I won't be fully comfortable until the US economy picks up again. Among other things, it needs to be able to raise interest rates to prevent another housing bubble, etc. The US recovering will cause out dollar to go down a bit (relatively) making exports easier.

A sidenote. The AFR I read this morning had a big article about rural industry. Fat lambs ATM are selling for $50 each, previously unheard of! These are all going to China, as is much other rural output. So we are again, if only partly, riding on the sheep's back :) In the absence of a full-on mining boom our rural exports are fulfilling a vital role!

Lefteee

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Lefteee » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:27 pm

I think the possibility is there - if we allow it.

There are a number of reasons why our economy is performing so much better than the US. One is that a great deal of what has been spent or slated to be spent is not stimulus - it is TARP. It is not there to underpin jobs or demand in general, it exists merely to buy to troubled assets. That is, swap bank and other financial institution reserves for government paper.

Another reason is that our stimulus directly bolstered demand - it was poured in at the bottom. Billions of dollars were injected into millions of bank accounts belonging to ordinary John and Jane Doe's, with the accompanying message "go forth and spend". And spend they did.

In the US, much of this was poured in at the top - given to the big financial institutions with the accomapnying message "go forth and lend". Problem - US consumers have accrued a level of debt (as a proportion of GDP) that has no parallel in the history of capitalism, as far as I am aware. They may lack both the willingness and the ability to jump straight back into borrowing. The banks are pumped up on quantitive easing, interest rates are up against the zero bound - all to little or no avail thus far.

The level of private sector debt that has been racked up in the US - and Australia, though not as extreme - is truly staggering. The only time it even came close was - you guessed it - just prior to the great crash of 1929, when private debt as a proprtion of GDP reached 246%. It collapsed with the great depression and took around 70 years to reach that again - and then pass it. When the shit hit the fan late last year, it stood at 300% of GDP.

I have seen some interesting charts that I will see if I can dig up. Like what I have posted re government debt levels and interest rate movements, they are not opinions - they are facts.

BTW everyone - don't take any heed of Ross Garnaut's dribbling. He is a cock spanker and a parasite who profited handsomly by advising governments on how best to sack public sector workers. He and the bride of Jabba the Hutt (Julie Novak) would make a great couple.

Jovial Monk

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Jovial Monk » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:27 am

Now now lefty, you don't have to hold back here, tell us what you really think of Ross Garnaut!



:mrgreen:

Jovial Monk

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Jovial Monk » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:56 am

Hmmm this mornings Business AGE email reckons US manufacturing are driving the US recovery. Maybe.

The manufacturing seems mostly replenishing inventories (e.g. cars sold in the 'Clunkers' program) and the housing recovery is subsidised. Don't want to be pessimistic, but so far no real, self supporting recovery is apparent.

Lefteee

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Lefteee » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Jovial Monk wrote:Now now lefty, you don't have to hold back here, tell us what you really think of Ross Garnaut!



:mrgreen:
Yeah, that description was pretty mild in relation to what I really think of him. :mrgreen:

Actually, seeing he was paid large sums of public money to advise where to bring the axe down, all the public sector workers who were laid off on his advice should launch a class action. We'll call it " The ex-public sector stolen wages campaign".

Jovial Monk

Re: Mainstream economists grasping reality (just barely)

Post by Jovial Monk » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:59 pm

Look at the graph of consumer confidence here:

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2009/958/

Looking bloody good! Labor are the better economic managers!

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