Who doesn't give a Gonski?

[Rorschach]

At one time we had free university education, but the conservatives, after they'd had a free ride to obtain their chosen professions, turned around and condemned Whitlam forever ensuring their kids would be indebted for their education.

The Hawke Labor government created HECS in 1989

[mantra]

The Hawke Labor government created HECS in 1989

And Howard ran with it by increasing fees and putting nothing back into universities. If he could have - he would have privatised them.

[Rorschach]

You lied mantra face it...
you and your sad Howard hater obsession

[IQS.RLOW]

What till she gets Tony Abbott and Barnaby as her PM and deputy. You can just picture the spray and frothing saliva in the corners of her pruny old lips

[mantra]

What till she gets Tony Abbott and Barnaby as her PM and deputy. You can just picture the spray and frothing saliva in the corners of her pruny old lips

[Rorschach]

Cheers... hic...

[Mattus]

They were some $20 billion dollars in debt 25 years ago

Yeah but no.

A modest adjustment was made on projected funding.

Two billion dollars is not a modest adjustment.

The funding the university receives for each student is subject to a 2% efficiency dividend (google it), followed by another 1.25%. Incentives to pay hecs beyond the mandatory minimum disappear. And scholarships are converted into loans. The effects are quite significant.

What is the point of making university accessible to our youth - if they haven't had the early education to pursue it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for more crayons and shit for the kids, but I do think they're doing okay with all the smartboards and free iPads I see being handed around. Meanwhile university science (and medicine) is now being taught without any wet practicals because budgets are so tight.

But perhaps there are other areas where these costs might be found. Perhaps going a bit easier with all the fucking middle class welfare and tax breaks for the middle class. Perhaps don't build a stupid train that will take you 3 times as long and cost twice as much as a plane and only depart once a day to get from Melbourne to Sydney?
All better options than taking he hatchet to our universities. If we cut them we might as well just sign up to OPEC and embrace the whole resource rich banana republic thing.

[IQS.RLOW]

Whoever got the contract for those smart boards in govt schools made a fucking motza , and I guarantee if you trace it back it would be some ALP associated scumbag who managed to tie up the contract at an exorbitant markup and then had the installation also tied in.

Of course they would have to be union affiliated. Couldn't possibly have normal workers with the ability to use a drill or a ladder to install what is essentially a big tv...like the rest of us do

[IQS.RLOW]

I do believe Mattus as an academic has only just figured out what it's like to be an actual taxpayer

Welcome to the world of the "shit costs money" Mattus. Light your candles and protest in your quadrangle- while they are spending $5+ billions on trying not to look like hypocrites after ignoring 11 years of working policies when it comes to immigration.

Your hard work and years of study has now been degraded because Gillard caved and 36000 sponges now need 36000 rolls of Sorbent every few days along with 36000 meals and 36000 beds and 36000 advocates and 36000 lawyers.

I don't envy you fighting over the ever shrinking pool of public funds.
Give me capitalism any day. I'll prove my worth and get paid accordingly- either get involved or get the fuck out. There is no room for Australian public funds to examine the brush strokes on the Mona Lisa.

[mantra]

They were some $20 billion dollars in debt 25 years ago

Yeah but no.

The graph is misleading. It shows outstanding debt today. Obviously most of the 1989 and onwards debts have been paid or written off. They're not still outstanding from 1989.

Under the Howard government universities were deregulated and fees increased by 25%.

Two billion dollars is not a modest adjustment.

When most of the projected funding of $50 billion plus is dramatically reduced under a Coalition government - $2 billion will appear to be just a drop in the ocean. Do you really think an LNP government will commit themselves to generous funding for a public university?

Government funding to tertiary education over the same period of time actually decreased in real terms during the Coalition reign.

Funding provided by the Australian Government to higher education increased from $4.4 billion in 1997 to $4.7 billion in 2002. As a proportion of overall funding, this represented a decrease from 54% in 1997 to 40% in 2002.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf ... enDocument

The funding the university receives for each student is subject to a 2% efficiency dividend (google it), followed by another 1.25%. Incentives to pay hecs beyond the mandatory minimum disappear. And scholarships are converted into loans. The effects are quite significant.

I agree with you on this point, but it is not set in concrete yet. People will defer debt of course.

But perhaps there are other areas where these costs might be found. Perhaps going a bit easier with all the fucking middle class welfare and tax breaks for the middle class. Perhaps don't build a stupid train that will take you 3 times as long and cost twice as much as a plane and only depart once a day to get from Melbourne to Sydney?
All better options than taking he hatchet to our universities. If we cut them we might as well just sign up to OPEC and embrace the whole resource rich banana republic thing.

The opposition is all about middle class welfare and tax breaks for the top 10%. We were headed down the banana republic path under the last Coalition government. Have you already forgotten John Howard's pork barrelling where every man and his dog - no matter how wealthy or poor - was entitled to handouts and they became dependent on them - emotionally and financially.

This government has been trying to claw it back a little and has re-introduced means testing. No mean feat.